The West Javanese or Sundanese keris - a discussion

jagabuwana · 24th July 2018, 01:42 PM

Thanks Alan, there was definitely a lot of fat and perhaps over-elaboration in my initial post and I appreciate that you've approached it concisely.

It wasn't my intention to disallow the Pajajaran classification from discussion, and I am also interested in whatever could be considered Sundanese dressings for keris, whether Cirebon or otherwise.

Where dress is concerned, I am interested to know if Sundanese elites had keris dressings that were distinctly Sundanese or otherwise regional, and I'd be interested on information about this from anyone who could elaborate.

On a slightly related note or observation, I have at least been able to confirm (albeit with only a very small sample of photos) that some Sundanese Bupatis wore keris that to my eye look somewhat like Solo ladrangan and yudowinatan style handle (whether it is actually Solo I don't know).

I have also found a thread by Ganjawulung (http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=18619) in which he shares his opinions on Sunda blades, where he says that they are longer than usual.

The thread also has some photos of specimens from Prabu Geusan Ulun Museum in Sumedang, which show a lot of wrangka gayaman, though I'm unsure if these are uniquely regional or Sundanese as opposed to being indistinguishable from other styles. The naga sasra keris also show yudowinatan style handles, though at least one of these is purported to be a gift from one of the Amangkurats of Mataram.

Bjorn · 24th July 2018, 08:17 PM

As Alan has said, Sunda keris would be Pajajaran and Banten. Of these two, I'd say that the Pajajaran keris are more unique, as the Banten ones show similarities to keris from Bali and Blambangan. A popular theory is that this similarity is due to the exodus of keris makers after the fall of Majapahit.
If this theory is taken to be true, then the Banten keris would likely show a very high conformance to Majapahit, i.e. Javanese, styles.
Pajajaran keris, on the other hand, originated in Sunda, as far as I am aware.

As concerns the above mentioned theory, it is explicitly mentioned by Karsten Sejr Jensen on his Krisdisk. I suspect it has been referenced in other works as well, but perhaps other members could confirm this.

A. G. Maisey · 24th July 2018, 11:54 PM

Yes Bjorn, the "pande migration" theory is pretty much generally accepted as being so. It might be, it might not be, but it does seem to be reasonable and logical.

Jaga, I have very little knowledge in respect of West Javanese/Sundanese keris dress that I would be prepared to be definite about. Anything I know in this regard is simply what can be read in published works, most of which I tend to automatically distrust.

I think that for a long time, the Solo dress form has been widely accepted as almost a "national" standard, certainly so since independence, and seemingly so, to a large degree, in late colonial times.

Amuk Murugul · 26th July 2018, 12:27 AM

Hullo jagabuwana,

I am indeed heartened by your stated passion/enthusiasm and wish you well.
I just thought that I’d drop you the following diagram of blade details (the details are in their simple/basic forms).
Perhaps you may wish to consider it. (It may point/spur you in a particular direction.)

Best,

26th July 2018, 12:27 AM	#4
Amuk Murugul Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Kaboejoetan Galoenggoeng Mélben Posts: 472	Hullo jagabuwana, I am indeed heartened by your stated passion/enthusiasm and wish you well. I just thought that I’d drop you the following diagram of blade details (the details are in their simple/basic forms). Perhaps you may wish to consider it. (It may point/spur you in a particular direction.) Best, Attached Images

24th July 2018, 01:42 PM	#1
jagabuwana Member Join Date: Jan 2018 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 290	Thanks Alan, there was definitely a lot of fat and perhaps over-elaboration in my initial post and I appreciate that you've approached it concisely. It wasn't my intention to disallow the Pajajaran classification from discussion, and I am also interested in whatever could be considered Sundanese dressings for keris, whether Cirebon or otherwise. Where dress is concerned, I am interested to know if Sundanese elites had keris dressings that were distinctly Sundanese or otherwise regional, and I'd be interested on information about this from anyone who could elaborate. On a slightly related note or observation, I have at least been able to confirm (albeit with only a very small sample of photos) that some Sundanese Bupatis wore keris that to my eye look somewhat like Solo ladrangan and yudowinatan style handle (whether it is actually Solo I don't know). I have also found a thread by Ganjawulung (http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=18619) in which he shares his opinions on Sunda blades, where he says that they are longer than usual. The thread also has some photos of specimens from Prabu Geusan Ulun Museum in Sumedang, which show a lot of wrangka gayaman, though I'm unsure if these are uniquely regional or Sundanese as opposed to being indistinguishable from other styles. The naga sasra keris also show yudowinatan style handles, though at least one of these is purported to be a gift from one of the Amangkurats of Mataram.

24th July 2018, 08:17 PM	#2
Bjorn Member Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Netherlands Posts: 188	As Alan has said, Sunda keris would be Pajajaran and Banten. Of these two, I'd say that the Pajajaran keris are more unique, as the Banten ones show similarities to keris from Bali and Blambangan. A popular theory is that this similarity is due to the exodus of keris makers after the fall of Majapahit. If this theory is taken to be true, then the Banten keris would likely show a very high conformance to Majapahit, i.e. Javanese, styles. Pajajaran keris, on the other hand, originated in Sunda, as far as I am aware. As concerns the above mentioned theory, it is explicitly mentioned by Karsten Sejr Jensen on his Krisdisk. I suspect it has been referenced in other works as well, but perhaps other members could confirm this.

24th July 2018, 11:54 PM	#3
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,015	Yes Bjorn, the "pande migration" theory is pretty much generally accepted as being so. It might be, it might not be, but it does seem to be reasonable and logical. Jaga, I have very little knowledge in respect of West Javanese/Sundanese keris dress that I would be prepared to be definite about. Anything I know in this regard is simply what can be read in published works, most of which I tend to automatically distrust. I think that for a long time, the Solo dress form has been widely accepted as almost a "national" standard, certainly so since independence, and seemingly so, to a large degree, in late colonial times.