Puukko Question

kronckew · 2nd July 2018, 09:20 AM

Scaled up would make a nice prow for a Viking longship

the full frontal shows just below the hands, what looks like the stem of a longship with the bow wave.

I note the 'scales' looked like a scale armour hauberk, the head/forearms/hands don't have them. looks like it's wearing a helmet with a rear neck guard too. Bushy eyebrows? Stuff coming out of it's mouth could be dragon fire rather than a split tongue.

Dragons/Serpents/Wurm frequently had forked tongues...So did people.

Yours has hands cupping scaly breasts, maybe this is her after she shaved off her moustache?

fernando · 2nd July 2018, 02:10 PM

Is that the best of you, Wayne ?
Honestly

mariusgmioc · 2nd July 2018, 03:43 PM

Hello Alan,

My best guess would be Jormungandr, the Midgard serpent.

But the knife doesn't look Finnish to me.

The Finnish puukko is quite simple, even the high end/dress pieces. Moreover, the typical puukko has no ricasso, with the edge going all the way to the hilt/ front bolster.

However, even for a Norwegian knife it is rather unusual due to its lavishly carved hilt and sheath. The style of the carving and decoration on the sheath also doesn't look very "Norse" to me. Special, less traditional order?!

But just my two cents...

kronckew · 2nd July 2018, 04:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fernando

Is that the best of you, Wayne ?
Honestly

I'm having an off day...

Anyhow, was going to say it looks more like a keris hilt and maybe them folks might have some info.

midelburgo · 2nd July 2018, 05:09 PM

No idea about the knife, but the carving and the silverwork look pretty Indonesian to me...

Rick · 2nd July 2018, 05:21 PM

My impression also, but A.G. would be one in the know about that end of things.
Truly a anomalous puuko.

We do see figural ivory Dutch sword handles carved in the Far East...

drac2k · 2nd July 2018, 07:20 PM

Kronckew,I must be having an "off-day," as well as I thought your post was rather humorous;thanks for the smile !

A. G. Maisey · 2nd July 2018, 11:53 PM

Thank you for your responses gentlemen.

I have maintained an interest in Nordic knives, especially puukko-style knives, for many years, I built a reasonably large collection of them, until I decided that they were just one more distraction from my work with the keris, so I sold off most of them and held on to only a few. In fact, when I was doing custom knife work I even made a few damascus blade puukkos.

This knife that I have asked the question on is most definitely not associated in any way with Jawa or Bali. The silver work is European, not SE Asian, the motifs are European, the style is not SE Asian. This much I can be definite about.

This is an old knife, my estimate is second half, 19th century. The name "Emil Pay" is engraved into a scabbard escutcheon and on the ferrule, I assume it is the original owner rather than the silversmith.

The blade was made by the Gallus workshop, Gallus was a Norwegian maker, it is believed that Gallus blades were sometimes hilted by a well known 19th century Norwegian carver named Bogarson. There is a long tradition of wood carving in Scandinavian countries, many of the puukkos that I sold on to other collectors had very well carved handles.

The identity of the hilt figure is my only question in respect of this knife, of course, all comments are welcome, but all I really need to know is the identity of the hilt figure.

This figure has arms and legs and is in a kneeling position, the arms and hands are clear, the feet can be seen at the rear base. The figure has two tongues, one emerging from each side of its mouth, each of those tongues appears to be forked. Marius has suggested Jormungandr, and this may well be intended to be a humanised, or anthromorphic depiction of Jormungandr, but because Jormungandr is normally depicted and thought of as a serpent, this can only be a hypothetical identification. In any case, although Jormungandr has a forked tongue, it is a single tongue, not two tongues. A fang at either side, back of the mouth, indicates demonic character.

Kronckew suggests that rather than two tongues we may be looking at dragon fire, this is certainly possible.

So gentlemen, does anybody have any suggestions as to identity of the hilt figure?

2nd July 2018, 09:20 AM	#1
kronckew Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Room 101, Glos. UK Posts: 4,227	Scaled up would make a nice prow for a Viking longship the full frontal shows just below the hands, what looks like the stem of a longship with the bow wave. I note the 'scales' looked like a scale armour hauberk, the head/forearms/hands don't have them. looks like it's wearing a helmet with a rear neck guard too. Bushy eyebrows? Stuff coming out of it's mouth could be dragon fire rather than a split tongue. Dragons/Serpents/Wurm frequently had forked tongues...So did people. Yours has hands cupping scaly breasts, maybe this is her after she shaved off her moustache? Attached Images Last edited by kronckew; 2nd July 2018 at 09:55 AM.

2nd July 2018, 03:43 PM	#3
mariusgmioc Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Location: Austria Posts: 1,911	Hello Alan, My best guess would be Jormungandr, the Midgard serpent. But the knife doesn't look Finnish to me. The Finnish puukko is quite simple, even the high end/dress pieces. Moreover, the typical puukko has no ricasso, with the edge going all the way to the hilt/ front bolster. However, even for a Norwegian knife it is rather unusual due to its lavishly carved hilt and sheath. The style of the carving and decoration on the sheath also doesn't look very "Norse" to me. Special, less traditional order?! But just my two cents... Last edited by mariusgmioc; 2nd July 2018 at 04:13 PM.

2nd July 2018, 02:10 PM	#2
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	Is that the best of you, Wayne ? Honestly

2nd July 2018, 05:09 PM	#5
midelburgo Member Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 264	No idea about the knife, but the carving and the silverwork look pretty Indonesian to me...

2nd July 2018, 05:21 PM	#6
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,339	My impression also, but A.G. would be one in the know about that end of things. Truly a anomalous puuko. We do see figural ivory Dutch sword handles carved in the Far East...

2nd July 2018, 07:20 PM	#7
drac2k Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Posts: 1,259	Kronckew,I must be having an "off-day," as well as I thought your post was rather humorous;thanks for the smile !

2nd July 2018, 11:53 PM	#8
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,019	Thank you for your responses gentlemen. I have maintained an interest in Nordic knives, especially puukko-style knives, for many years, I built a reasonably large collection of them, until I decided that they were just one more distraction from my work with the keris, so I sold off most of them and held on to only a few. In fact, when I was doing custom knife work I even made a few damascus blade puukkos. This knife that I have asked the question on is most definitely not associated in any way with Jawa or Bali. The silver work is European, not SE Asian, the motifs are European, the style is not SE Asian. This much I can be definite about. This is an old knife, my estimate is second half, 19th century. The name "Emil Pay" is engraved into a scabbard escutcheon and on the ferrule, I assume it is the original owner rather than the silversmith. The blade was made by the Gallus workshop, Gallus was a Norwegian maker, it is believed that Gallus blades were sometimes hilted by a well known 19th century Norwegian carver named Bogarson. There is a long tradition of wood carving in Scandinavian countries, many of the puukkos that I sold on to other collectors had very well carved handles. The identity of the hilt figure is my only question in respect of this knife, of course, all comments are welcome, but all I really need to know is the identity of the hilt figure. This figure has arms and legs and is in a kneeling position, the arms and hands are clear, the feet can be seen at the rear base. The figure has two tongues, one emerging from each side of its mouth, each of those tongues appears to be forked. Marius has suggested Jormungandr, and this may well be intended to be a humanised, or anthromorphic depiction of Jormungandr, but because Jormungandr is normally depicted and thought of as a serpent, this can only be a hypothetical identification. In any case, although Jormungandr has a forked tongue, it is a single tongue, not two tongues. A fang at either side, back of the mouth, indicates demonic character. Kronckew suggests that rather than two tongues we may be looking at dragon fire, this is certainly possible. So gentlemen, does anybody have any suggestions as to identity of the hilt figure?