Unknown keris blade, Solo or Madura?

David · 7th June 2018, 03:52 PM

Hi Paul. I can't tell for sure from your photos, but that does look like elongated sogokan to me. Like the "winged" carving i am not sure if they are original to the blade though.
As for the "winged" carving, this is also a bit difficult to make out in your photos. In hand this is probably much clearer, but i do see what you are perceiving as "wings". However, this would not be a Singo. If indeed i am interpreting this correctly it would seem more likely to represent a winged elephant. I have seen such representation on keris before and in fact have a blade with a much more obvious carving of a winged elephant in this position on the blade.

Paul B. · 7th June 2018, 06:15 PM

Yes my bad...I meant a winged and crowned elephant.
This pic shows the details more clear.

Bjorn · 7th June 2018, 07:13 PM

When taken together, couldn't the elongated sokogan and winged elephant be taken as a representation of paksi naga liman?
Liman = elephant, paksi = bird, and the long sokogan would symbolize the naga's body.

As to whether the carving is recent or not, I wouldn't care to venture.

Can I ask, why do you assume the wilah is from Madura?
Personally, I still find it difficult to tell which blade is from where. What I know about Madura blades is that their gandhik tends to slope inward, and that they often have a wispy telale gajah. I have difficulty recognizing those traits in this particular blade. (But as I said, I am quite bad at that.)

Paul B. · 7th June 2018, 08:02 PM

Documented as a Solo kris but a more knowledgeable person assumed Madura as an origin. The clothes don't tell me so but that is not a definitive proof.

A. G. Maisey · 8th June 2018, 03:56 AM

This blade is certainly not Solo, but Madura?

I just do not know. It might be, but if so, pretty recent --- it doesn't look recent, however even if we do allow recent Madura, there are more than a few things that are not consistent with that.

I do not want to guess where it originated --- not from a pic anyway.

Paul B. · 8th June 2018, 11:20 AM

You may learn from the peksi? It is not as massive as you might think ( wide base of the ganja).

A. G. Maisey · 8th June 2018, 01:22 PM

Paul, with my apologies, "peksi" is Krama for bird, "pesi" is an alternative spelling and pronunciation for "bird", brought about because the "k" in "peksi" is a glottal stop and is not usually heard by a non-native speaker.

But the word for a blade tang is "pesi", it is never "peksi".

I know that we find "peksi" as the word for "tang" in many places.

They are all wrong.

Looking closely at your photos of the gonjo area, it appears that the gonjo might be held in place with adhesive rather than by a metal to metal fit.

Is this so?

7th June 2018, 06:15 PM	#2
Paul B. Member Join Date: Nov 2017 Posts: 205	Yes my bad...I meant a winged and crowned elephant. This pic shows the details more clear. Attached Images

7th June 2018, 08:02 PM	#4
Paul B. Member Join Date: Nov 2017 Posts: 205	Documented as a Solo kris but a more knowledgeable person assumed Madura as an origin. The clothes don't tell me so but that is not a definitive proof. Attached Images

8th June 2018, 11:20 AM	#6
Paul B. Member Join Date: Nov 2017 Posts: 205	You may learn from the peksi? It is not as massive as you might think ( wide base of the ganja). Attached Images

7th June 2018, 03:52 PM	#1
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,218	Hi Paul. I can't tell for sure from your photos, but that does look like elongated sogokan to me. Like the "winged" carving i am not sure if they are original to the blade though. As for the "winged" carving, this is also a bit difficult to make out in your photos. In hand this is probably much clearer, but i do see what you are perceiving as "wings". However, this would not be a Singo. If indeed i am interpreting this correctly it would seem more likely to represent a winged elephant. I have seen such representation on keris before and in fact have a blade with a much more obvious carving of a winged elephant in this position on the blade.

7th June 2018, 07:13 PM	#3
Bjorn Member Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Netherlands Posts: 188	When taken together, couldn't the elongated sokogan and winged elephant be taken as a representation of paksi naga liman? Liman = elephant, paksi = bird, and the long sokogan would symbolize the naga's body. As to whether the carving is recent or not, I wouldn't care to venture. Can I ask, why do you assume the wilah is from Madura? Personally, I still find it difficult to tell which blade is from where. What I know about Madura blades is that their gandhik tends to slope inward, and that they often have a wispy telale gajah. I have difficulty recognizing those traits in this particular blade. (But as I said, I am quite bad at that.)

8th June 2018, 03:56 AM	#5
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,015	This blade is certainly not Solo, but Madura? I just do not know. It might be, but if so, pretty recent --- it doesn't look recent, however even if we do allow recent Madura, there are more than a few things that are not consistent with that. I do not want to guess where it originated --- not from a pic anyway.

8th June 2018, 01:22 PM	#7
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,015	Paul, with my apologies, "peksi" is Krama for bird, "pesi" is an alternative spelling and pronunciation for "bird", brought about because the "k" in "peksi" is a glottal stop and is not usually heard by a non-native speaker. But the word for a blade tang is "pesi", it is never "peksi". I know that we find "peksi" as the word for "tang" in many places. They are all wrong. Looking closely at your photos of the gonjo area, it appears that the gonjo might be held in place with adhesive rather than by a metal to metal fit. Is this so?