BLING

A. G. Maisey · 28th May 2018, 10:56 PM

David, I do not recognise any specific entity being represented by the bhuta style hilt.

David · 29th May 2018, 01:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

David, I do not recognise any specific entity being represented by the bhuta style hilt.

Thanks Alan. On closer inspection it seems to have animal features (snout and hair). I wonder if it might be intended as Hauman.
While we have discussed that many newer hilts are carved with no particular intention of deity or persona, i would think that there might be more intention for a keris that is considered to be of royal lineage.

A. G. Maisey · 29th May 2018, 02:03 AM

Anything is possible David, I really do not like to get into conjecture in relation to this sort of thing.

Jean · 29th May 2018, 09:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David

Thanks Alan. On closer inspection it seems to have animal features (snout and hair). I wonder if it might be intended as Hauman.
While we have discussed that many newer hilts are carved with no particular intention of diety of persona, i would think that there might be more intention for a keris that is considered to be of royal lineage.

I enlarged the pic and David is right. If it depicts Hanuman he should normally have a tail in the back. The style of carving (eyes, eyebrows, beard, ect) looks recent IMO.
Regards

A. G. Maisey · 29th May 2018, 10:27 AM

Hanoman is one of the Vanaras from the Ramayana.

Only one of them, yes, perhaps the best known, but only one Vanara.

Some of the others are:-

Bali (Vali), Angada, Kesari, Nala, Nila, Sugriwa.

There are maybe double this many Vanaras again.

Not every figural keris hilt in the form of a monkey is Hanoman.

Different people can have different reasons for wanting some other monkey figure as their personal keris hilt. How can anybody possibly know what was in the mind of the person who ordered that figural hilt in the first place?

It is very incorrect to assume that just because we see a monkey figure used as a Balinese keris hilt, that figure is automatically Hanoman.

This is the reason I will not put names on most of these figures found on Balinese hilts, be they monkeys or otherwise:- I was not privy to the private thoughts of the first owner of that figure, nor to the private thoughts of the man who carved it.

Jean · 29th May 2018, 01:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

It is very incorrect to assume that just because we see a monkey figure used as a Balinese keris hilt, that figure is automatically Hanoman.

Thank you Alan and you are right but frankly it is not very critical for me to know if the mythical monkey figure is Hanuman or Sugriwa (the 2 most famous ones).
The monkey hilt from Neka Museum has long thumb nails but the feet carving is not very clear (claws or not?).
I attach the pics of 2 Balinese monkey hilts from my collection, the recent wooden specimen should depict Hanuman since he holds a gada (mace) which is the attribute of Hanuman.
Regards

Gustav · 29th May 2018, 05:18 PM

Kinatah on the blade with monkey hilt doesn't seem to be an old one, the motifs are quite adventurous as is their execution; the second, if it's older, is at least refurbished. Also the blades are most probably not older then end of 19th cent. and (besides Kinatah) not really refined.

Jean · 29th May 2018, 08:09 PM

Thank you Gustav, it is my impression also from the pics but we would need to see the blades for a more accurate assessment. It seems to me that the descriptions from Pande Neka (in his book for instance) are often very enthusiastic.
Regards

28th May 2018, 10:56 PM	#1
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,994	David, I do not recognise any specific entity being represented by the bhuta style hilt.

29th May 2018, 02:03 AM	#3
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,994	Anything is possible David, I really do not like to get into conjecture in relation to this sort of thing.

29th May 2018, 10:27 AM	#5
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,994	Hanoman is one of the Vanaras from the Ramayana. Only one of them, yes, perhaps the best known, but only one Vanara. Some of the others are:- Bali (Vali), Angada, Kesari, Nala, Nila, Sugriwa. There are maybe double this many Vanaras again. Not every figural keris hilt in the form of a monkey is Hanoman. Different people can have different reasons for wanting some other monkey figure as their personal keris hilt. How can anybody possibly know what was in the mind of the person who ordered that figural hilt in the first place? It is very incorrect to assume that just because we see a monkey figure used as a Balinese keris hilt, that figure is automatically Hanoman. This is the reason I will not put names on most of these figures found on Balinese hilts, be they monkeys or otherwise:- I was not privy to the private thoughts of the first owner of that figure, nor to the private thoughts of the man who carved it.

29th May 2018, 05:18 PM	#7
Gustav Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,273	Kinatah on the blade with monkey hilt doesn't seem to be an old one, the motifs are quite adventurous as is their execution; the second, if it's older, is at least refurbished. Also the blades are most probably not older then end of 19th cent. and (besides Kinatah) not really refined.

29th May 2018, 08:09 PM	#8
Jean Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,740	Thank you Gustav, it is my impression also from the pics but we would need to see the blades for a more accurate assessment. It seems to me that the descriptions from Pande Neka (in his book for instance) are often very enthusiastic. Regards