A Unique European Hunting Sword With an Indo-Persian Wootz Blade

AJ1356 · 20th May 2018, 07:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eftihis

To me, the second digit on the date looks like "o" That gives a date of 1021 islamic, ie 1612, which looks much more likely for such a quality blade. Also, the second digit cannot be a "worn two" because even if it was, the remaining lines
do not correspond with the shape of the other "2" on the right.

I agree the date reads 1021 very clearly.
the rest says, Servant of Shah e Welaayet (Imam Ali the first Imam and the fourth Caliph) Abbas. This is the correct reading of this type of seal, I believe I have explained this elsewhere.
The bottom seal reads, Work of Kalb Ali ibn e Assad.

Very nice blade, the patterns is beautiful.

Bryce · 20th May 2018, 10:02 PM

G'day Charles. Great sword.

Is it just me or does this blade have a kirk narduban pattern with the steps on a slant! I haven't come across this before.

Cheers,
Bryce

Rick · 21st May 2018, 01:42 AM

Timeline according to blade date:
http://www.iranicaonline.org/articles/germany-I

kronckew · 24th May 2018, 11:12 AM

There were a number of sharp pointy things outside Wien in 1683 that the Turks decided they didn't need anymore after they were persuaded by a few Polish Winged Hussars that their welcome had been worn out and that they should leave. I wouldn't be surprised some were repurposed.

David · 24th May 2018, 01:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AJ1356

I agree the date reads 1021 very clearly.
the rest says, Servant of Shah e Welaayet (Imam Ali the first Imam and the fourth Caliph) Abbas. This is the correct reading of this type of seal, I believe I have explained this elsewhere.
The bottom seal reads, Work of Kalb Ali ibn e Assad.

Very nice blade, the patterns is beautiful.

Please excuse my ignorance on such things, but shouldn't this be read from right to left, making the Arabic date 1201, or roughly 1787?

Roland_M · 24th May 2018, 04:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David

Please excuse my ignorance on such things, but shouldn't this be read from right to left, making the Arabic date 1201, or roughly 1787?

Hi David,

nowadays Arabic dates are written from left to right.
See this example, 1980 = 1359.

Roland

David · 24th May 2018, 04:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roland_M

Hi David,

nowadays Arabic dates are written from left to right.
See this example, 1980 = 1359.

Roland

OK, but was that also true 3-400 years ago when this blade was supposedly forged?

kamals · 27th June 2018, 01:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David

OK, but was that also true 3-400 years ago when this blade was supposedly forged?

I think that it depended on the region. There's a book floating around title The Origin of the Arabic Numerals. I can't remember the author but it had some nice plates of examples of early Arabic numeral use in the Muslim East, the Muslim West, and the Christian West. I have it but can't find it on my shelves this morning :-(

In any case, there were definitely early left right uses that he recorded in his book. I'll give a good look when I get home from work. It's around here somewhere...

ariel · 27th June 2018, 09:09 PM

I have several dated islamic blades from 17-18th centuries, and all dates are read left-to-right.

Jens Nordlunde · 27th June 2018, 09:23 PM

From the one who translated the text on my weapons, I was told that the text should be read from right to left, but the numbers from left to right.

21st May 2018, 01:42 AM	#3
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,344	Persian Or ? Timeline according to blade date: http://www.iranicaonline.org/articles/germany-I

24th May 2018, 11:12 AM	#4
kronckew Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Room 101, Glos. UK Posts: 4,232	There were a number of sharp pointy things outside Wien in 1683 that the Turks decided they didn't need anymore after they were persuaded by a few Polish Winged Hussars that their welcome had been worn out and that they should leave. I wouldn't be surprised some were repurposed. Attached Images

20th May 2018, 10:02 PM	#2
Bryce Member Join Date: Aug 2017 Location: North Queensland, Australia Posts: 189	G'day Charles. Great sword. Is it just me or does this blade have a kirk narduban pattern with the steps on a slant! I haven't come across this before. Cheers, Bryce

27th June 2018, 09:09 PM	#9
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	I have several dated islamic blades from 17-18th centuries, and all dates are read left-to-right.

27th June 2018, 09:23 PM	#10
Jens Nordlunde Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 2,718	From the one who translated the text on my weapons, I was told that the text should be read from right to left, but the numbers from left to right.