Enquiry on keris motifs

David · 19th April 2018, 07:07 PM

I believe you will find more specific styles than are included in that thread, but it's a start. Add more here if you find them.

Anthony G. · 20th April 2018, 08:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David

I believe you will find more specific styles than are included in that thread, but it's a start. Add more here if you find them.

Recently I found out that there are new contemporary Naga design <Chinese dragon style> in Indonesia which I felt that is not following the keris tradition. Therefore I will not show here. Not sure if it is right thing to happen or is it me being traditional thinking.

Paul de Souza · 20th April 2018, 11:10 AM

I have this Naga in Malay dress. I have always wondered if it is Peninsular or an imported Java blade. Can we tell the difference? What I like about it is how the Naga's body limits itself to the sogokan. Is there a law or adat for this? Which is more common - this body form or the full blade length body?

The sarong has no buntut I so did not show the whole sheath to meet upload limits.

Comments please.

alexish · 20th April 2018, 11:29 AM

Dear Paul,

This is supposed to be a Pattani Naga. What is your opinion?

Paul de Souza · 20th April 2018, 12:35 PM

I am sorry Alex but I have never seen a Patani Naga so I can't say.

Quote:

Originally Posted by alexish

Dear Paul,

This is supposed to be a Pattani Naga. What is your opinion?

Gustav · 20th April 2018, 05:44 PM

Paul, I have the impression, that the blade is seriously reshaped, perhaps already a longer time ago.

Sorsoran is very massive compare to the rest, (especially Gonjo seems to be really huge) and Luk previously could have been deeper.

What seems curious to me is, that the grain at the first Luk shows strong bending. Normally the very first Luk is carved, not bent.

Gustav · 20th April 2018, 06:43 PM

Actually when I look at the picture of Sorsoran, I see 3 different materials - Slorok (marked in blue), an Adeg grained layer, and a layer which comes above Adeg in the lower part of Sorsoran, we see it better on Wadidang side. Gonjo also is made from that material.

A. G. Maisey · 21st April 2018, 01:53 AM

I cannot speak with any authority in respect of keris from areas other than Jawa, Bali, & Madura, but in these places the normal way in which all luk were and are put into a keris blade was and is by forging.

Some blades that have undergone revision, usually very inferior blades that have been reshaped for the souvenir market, may have had luk cut into them.

It is not at all unusual to find a blade, be it a keris blade or otherwise, that is comprised of several layers of material, in older Javanese blades, especially those blades that are classifiable as Mataram from around the Sultan Agung era, it is quite common to find a construction where the steel core has been inlet around the blade edges, the body of the blade will appear as relatively loosely grained iron, not dissimilar to common wrought iron, and the overlaying material will be tight, well compacted iron, sometimes with contrasting pamor, sometimes a simple sanak. In keris made specifically for combat from this era, sanak is the more common material.

I have put this blade under discussion into correct orientation for viewing, and I can see no evidence of reshaping. Proportions are well within accepted parameters for a relatively recent blade --- "relatively recent" = post 1850 in this context.

I am unwilling to state probable geographic point of origin from the photographs, but garap would not be out of place in East Jawa.

20th April 2018, 11:10 AM	#3
Paul de Souza Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Singapore Posts: 66	I have this Naga in Malay dress. I have always wondered if it is Peninsular or an imported Java blade. Can we tell the difference? What I like about it is how the Naga's body limits itself to the sogokan. Is there a law or adat for this? Which is more common - this body form or the full blade length body? The sarong has no buntut I so did not show the whole sheath to meet upload limits. Comments please. Attached Images

20th April 2018, 11:29 AM	#4
alexish Member Join Date: Jun 2017 Posts: 127	Pattani Naga Dear Paul, This is supposed to be a Pattani Naga. What is your opinion? Attached Images

20th April 2018, 06:43 PM	#7
Gustav Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,273	Actually when I look at the picture of Sorsoran, I see 3 different materials - Slorok (marked in blue), an Adeg grained layer, and a layer which comes above Adeg in the lower part of Sorsoran, we see it better on Wadidang side. Gonjo also is made from that material. Attached Images

21st April 2018, 01:53 AM	#8
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,992	I cannot speak with any authority in respect of keris from areas other than Jawa, Bali, & Madura, but in these places the normal way in which all luk were and are put into a keris blade was and is by forging. Some blades that have undergone revision, usually very inferior blades that have been reshaped for the souvenir market, may have had luk cut into them. It is not at all unusual to find a blade, be it a keris blade or otherwise, that is comprised of several layers of material, in older Javanese blades, especially those blades that are classifiable as Mataram from around the Sultan Agung era, it is quite common to find a construction where the steel core has been inlet around the blade edges, the body of the blade will appear as relatively loosely grained iron, not dissimilar to common wrought iron, and the overlaying material will be tight, well compacted iron, sometimes with contrasting pamor, sometimes a simple sanak. In keris made specifically for combat from this era, sanak is the more common material. I have put this blade under discussion into correct orientation for viewing, and I can see no evidence of reshaping. Proportions are well within accepted parameters for a relatively recent blade --- "relatively recent" = post 1850 in this context. I am unwilling to state probable geographic point of origin from the photographs, but garap would not be out of place in East Jawa. Attached Images

19th April 2018, 07:07 PM	#1
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,211	I believe you will find more specific styles than are included in that thread, but it's a start. Add more here if you find them.

20th April 2018, 05:44 PM	#6
Gustav Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,273	Paul, I have the impression, that the blade is seriously reshaped, perhaps already a longer time ago. Sorsoran is very massive compare to the rest, (especially Gonjo seems to be really huge) and Luk previously could have been deeper. What seems curious to me is, that the grain at the first Luk shows strong bending. Normally the very first Luk is carved, not bent.