Katipunan Dagger

Battara · 21st March 2018, 04:52 AM

I want to add that this could have been made between the end of the Tejeros Convention 0f 1897 and the beginning of the ousting of the Spanish in 1899 based on the 3 stars and sun face but no triangle.

Robert · 21st March 2018, 05:53 AM

Quote:

A sweet reward for diligence

Thank you Kino, but this I believe was just more of a case of being damned lucky as I was actually searching for something else when I found this.

Kai, I have been using a mixture of mink oil and a couple of other items for years now with the only undesirable side effect that I have noticed being that it darkens lighter colored leather. It helps soften old dry leather and waterproofs it as well. I got the recipe for mixing this from an old saddle maker years ago who used it on everything he made and have always just referred to it as mink oil. Sorry about the misunderstanding.

Quote:

I want to add that this could have been made between the end of the Tejeros Convention 0f 1897 and the beginning of the ousting of the Spanish in 1899 based on the 3 stars and sun face but no triangle.

Because of the three circles arainged in a triangle being one of the earliest symbols used to designate rank by the Katipunan I believe that there is a very good possibility that this dagger predates the Tejeros Convention. Of course I could easily be wrong.

Best,
Robert

Robert · 21st March 2018, 06:41 PM

About the three circles (sun symbols) arranged in the triangle configuration on the ends of the guard, as mentioned in my first posting I had seen these before in the form of rank designation. When I mentioned this to Lorenz this was his response:

[/QUOTE] On your query, I totally forgot commenting about that point. Yes indeed, I agree very much that the three circles arranged in a triangular fashion can also mean that the Katipunero who used to own that must had been a brigadier general (never thought of that, but now that you've mentioned it, I agree 100%). Those symbols you see can have more than one meaning - hence it appears to have both, the mystical (the Katipunan's iconic triangle and the sun symbol) and the technical/practical (to denote a rank, which in this case was ingenious/creative indeed). [/QUOTE]

I cannot find the original information I had (this is what happens when you do not back up your information and your computer crashes) showing these very early rank designations, but after a search I did find these later examples. The difference between the symbol used on this daggers guard and the one in the chart below was that the earlier symbol did not use the letter "K" in the center of the circles as shown in this later example. There were also some slight differences in some of the other symbols as well and if I remember correctly again it was only the absence of the "K" in some but not all of the other designations.

Best,
Robert

Sajen · 21st March 2018, 06:43 PM

Hello Robert,

congrats for this very nice dagger!

It's a real beauty, I like the asymmetrical scabbard fittings. I hope that I will be able to add one lucky day such a fine piece to my own collection. And you have given it a great TLC, now it shows it's real beauty. A great addition to your outstanding collection!

Best regards,
Detlef

21st March 2018, 06:41 PM	#3
Robert EAAF Staff Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Centerville, Kansas Posts: 2,196	About the three circles (sun symbols) arranged in the triangle configuration on the ends of the guard, as mentioned in my first posting I had seen these before in the form of rank designation. When I mentioned this to Lorenz this was his response: [/QUOTE] On your query, I totally forgot commenting about that point. Yes indeed, I agree very much that the three circles arranged in a triangular fashion can also mean that the Katipunero who used to own that must had been a brigadier general (never thought of that, but now that you've mentioned it, I agree 100%). Those symbols you see can have more than one meaning - hence it appears to have both, the mystical (the Katipunan's iconic triangle and the sun symbol) and the technical/practical (to denote a rank, which in this case was ingenious/creative indeed). [/QUOTE] I cannot find the original information I had (this is what happens when you do not back up your information and your computer crashes) showing these very early rank designations, but after a search I did find these later examples. The difference between the symbol used on this daggers guard and the one in the chart below was that the earlier symbol did not use the letter "K" in the center of the circles as shown in this later example. There were also some slight differences in some of the other symbols as well and if I remember correctly again it was only the absence of the "K" in some but not all of the other designations. Best, Robert Attached Images

21st March 2018, 04:52 AM	#1
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,280	I want to add that this could have been made between the end of the Tejeros Convention 0f 1897 and the beginning of the ousting of the Spanish in 1899 based on the 3 stars and sun face but no triangle.

21st March 2018, 06:43 PM	#4
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 9,214	Hello Robert, congrats for this very nice dagger! It's a real beauty, I like the asymmetrical scabbard fittings. I hope that I will be able to add one lucky day such a fine piece to my own collection. And you have given it a great TLC, now it shows it's real beauty. A great addition to your outstanding collection! Best regards, Detlef