Caucasian Khanjar or Beibut dagger ?

francantolin · 14th March 2018, 07:42 PM

Hello,

I have just bought this dagger in an auction on internet

the hilt shape look like a kindjal hilt ( seems made of horn )
the curved blade looks like a beibut dagger blade or a khanjar .

The scabbard ending mount has an ''ottoman/greek'' style
( made of brass ? )

so I make a ''mix'' between these informations and opt for a caucasian origin.

What do you think ?
All comments are welcomed.

I'll post better pictures when I'll receive it.

Kind regards

Franco

francantolin · 14th March 2018, 10:09 PM

I just found this dagger picture on internet,
said to be a kurdish dagger,

the scabbard is really similar,

the hilt ...hum...

francantolin · 15th March 2018, 05:56 PM

Maybe a japanese hirschfanger ?...

No one has got/seen a dagger like this one ?

Kubur · 15th March 2018, 08:50 PM

Kurdish khanjar from Turkey very much influenced by Caucasian as you wrote
interesting

francantolin · 15th March 2018, 11:05 PM

Hello and thank you Kubur,

I'll post interesting picture ( I hope !) when i'll receive it.

Kind regards

ariel · 19th March 2018, 03:23 AM

Kindjals with curved blade are called Bebut in Russia, There was even a military variant of such a weapon with Bebut as its official name.
I have no idea what is the meaning of this name.
Anybody knows?

francantolin · 20th March 2018, 10:38 PM

Hello everybody,
I don't know too what bebut-beibut means
( I thought just maybe dagger or knife but it isn't...)

Just received the dagger,
really nice !!
turkish-kurdish khanjar as Kubur said,

I cleaned the scabbard, nice surprise, it's silver mounted.
The blade is interesting and a bit strange:
it's an heavy blade and on one side only,
the fuller seems to have been ''blued''.

francantolin · 20th March 2018, 10:41 PM

For the scabbard,
does anybody know the meaning of the fittings shape ?

Kind regards !

francantolin · 22nd March 2018, 10:50 AM

I cleaned the blade too...

francantolin · 22nd March 2018, 11:02 AM

I used first sandpaper 400 then 600, 1000 and finish with 1500.
Still remains scratches/stripes...

A damas blade ?

Or just a rough old sharpening ?

I hesitate to etch the blade gently ( with lemon/ vinegar ?... )

Advices welcomed !!

Richard G · 23rd March 2018, 10:25 PM

In my experience many of these Kurdish Jambiyas have a watered blade. I would give it a go, you can always polish it out if you're not happy. A lot of etchants seem to leave a brown/yellow tinge. I have found that if, after stabilising, black boot polish is smeared on the blade and then vigorously polished off it leaves a pleasant dark hue to the blade.
Best wishes
Richard

motan · 24th March 2018, 09:23 PM

Hi Francantolin,
To me, it does not look Caucasian nor Turkish. In my view this is either Syrian Kurdish or from Iraq, very close to Syria. I say this because of the shape of the hilt and the blade with one central fuller. So, the dagger looks Syrian or thereabout, but the sheath is 100% Iraqi. This is my personal opinion and I have no literature to back it.

ariel · 25th March 2018, 01:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Richard G

I have found that if, after stabilising, black boot polish is smeared on the blade and then vigorously polished off it leaves a pleasant dark hue to the blade.
Best wishes
Richard

Never even thought of it!
One lives, one learns.
Thanks!

ariel · 25th March 2018, 01:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by francantolin

I hesitate to etch the blade gently ( with lemon/ vinegar ?... )

Advices welcomed !!

Nital, 2%.
You can get it on Amazon, but all companies I tried to contact were ready to ship it only to a commercial address.
A friend of mine, who is a VP of a metalworking company, buys it for me.
If you have connections with chemistry lab, metal working company, professional blademaker etc, you are in luck.
No yucky brown stuff of ferric chloride!

francantolin · 25th March 2018, 12:37 PM

Thank you all !!

I'll try to find Nital 2%,
don't seems easy to find.

I work in an highschool; I will ask my colleague teaching physical if they have nitric acid in the laboratory and mix it with ethanol...( sure glasses, gloves and laboratory fume hood).
We'll see ...

francantolin · 26th March 2018, 04:46 PM

Hello,

I found concentrated chlorydric acid ( 20%) but no nitric acid,
I read it attacks strongly iron,
Do you think it can be used too ? ( 1-2 % ?)

14th March 2018, 07:42 PM	#1
francantolin Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Posts: 924	Caucasian Khanjar or Beibut dagger ? Hello, I have just bought this dagger in an auction on internet the hilt shape look like a kindjal hilt ( seems made of horn ) the curved blade looks like a beibut dagger blade or a khanjar . The scabbard ending mount has an ''ottoman/greek'' style ( made of brass ? ) so I make a ''mix'' between these informations and opt for a caucasian origin. What do you think ? All comments are welcomed. I'll post better pictures when I'll receive it. Kind regards Franco Attached Images

14th March 2018, 10:09 PM	#2
francantolin Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Posts: 924	I just found this dagger picture on internet, said to be a kurdish dagger, the scabbard is really similar, the hilt ...hum... Attached Images

20th March 2018, 10:38 PM	#7
francantolin Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Posts: 924	Hello everybody, I don't know too what bebut-beibut means ( I thought just maybe dagger or knife but it isn't...) Just received the dagger, really nice !! turkish-kurdish khanjar as Kubur said, I cleaned the scabbard, nice surprise, it's silver mounted. The blade is interesting and a bit strange: it's an heavy blade and on one side only, the fuller seems to have been ''blued''. Attached Images

20th March 2018, 10:41 PM	#8
francantolin Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Posts: 924	For the scabbard, does anybody know the meaning of the fittings shape ? Kind regards ! Attached Images

22nd March 2018, 10:50 AM	#9
francantolin Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Posts: 924	I cleaned the blade too... Attached Images

15th March 2018, 05:56 PM	#3
francantolin Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Posts: 924	Maybe a japanese hirschfanger ?... No one has got/seen a dagger like this one ?

15th March 2018, 08:50 PM	#4
Kubur Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Posts: 2,145	Kurdish khanjar from Turkey very much influenced by Caucasian as you wrote interesting

15th March 2018, 11:05 PM	#5
francantolin Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Posts: 924	Hello and thank you Kubur, I'll post interesting picture ( I hope !) when i'll receive it. Kind regards

19th March 2018, 03:23 AM	#6
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	Kindjals with curved blade are called Bebut in Russia, There was even a military variant of such a weapon with Bebut as its official name. I have no idea what is the meaning of this name. Anybody knows?

22nd March 2018, 11:02 AM	#10
francantolin Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Posts: 924	I used first sandpaper 400 then 600, 1000 and finish with 1500. Still remains scratches/stripes... A damas blade ? Or just a rough old sharpening ? I hesitate to etch the blade gently ( with lemon/ vinegar ?... ) Advices welcomed !! Attached Images

23rd March 2018, 10:25 PM	#11
Richard G Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Posts: 415	In my experience many of these Kurdish Jambiyas have a watered blade. I would give it a go, you can always polish it out if you're not happy. A lot of etchants seem to leave a brown/yellow tinge. I have found that if, after stabilising, black boot polish is smeared on the blade and then vigorously polished off it leaves a pleasant dark hue to the blade. Best wishes Richard

24th March 2018, 09:23 PM	#12
motan Member Join Date: Apr 2016 Location: Jerusalem Posts: 274	Hi Francantolin, To me, it does not look Caucasian nor Turkish. In my view this is either Syrian Kurdish or from Iraq, very close to Syria. I say this because of the shape of the hilt and the blade with one central fuller. So, the dagger looks Syrian or thereabout, but the sheath is 100% Iraqi. This is my personal opinion and I have no literature to back it.

25th March 2018, 12:37 PM	#15
francantolin Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Posts: 924	Thank you all !! I'll try to find Nital 2%, don't seems easy to find. I work in an highschool; I will ask my colleague teaching physical if they have nitric acid in the laboratory and mix it with ethanol...( sure glasses, gloves and laboratory fume hood). We'll see ...

26th March 2018, 04:46 PM	#16
francantolin Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Posts: 924	Hello, I found concentrated chlorydric acid ( 20%) but no nitric acid, I read it attacks strongly iron, Do you think it can be used too ? ( 1-2 % ?)