Ancient Keris Cengkrong for comment

Arjuna · 16th March 2018, 12:24 PM

Hello to all!

I recently found this Keris Cengkrong with an ancient very thin blade. Must have been highly esteemed by a previous owner according to the costly sarong (silver sheat, gading handle).

An indonesian friend opined it to be tangguh kuno from pajajaran era, eventually previously owned by a royal family.

What would you say?

Thanks for your comments.

regards
Karl

Paul B. · 16th March 2018, 04:14 PM

Ahhh yes I recognize this one, you got it from a Dutch guy!
The bery tip end of the blade is broken.

Paul B. · 16th March 2018, 04:15 PM

Also think that the silver rim/band around the neck or joint of the sheath is missing ( it usually comes together with the button).

A. G. Maisey · 17th March 2018, 02:32 AM

This style of scabbard, from the applicable period, is normally made in mamas, not silver.

Has the material in this scabbard been tested and confirmed as silver?

Arjuna · 17th March 2018, 07:56 AM

It was not tested, I was just told that it is silver or siver plated. But I think you are right its a bit too shiny.

btw. What is Mamas made of? Just know it contains some Nickel.

Paul B. · 17th March 2018, 09:35 AM

The style of scabbard reminds me much more of a wooden example I recently handled and passed thru. Still believe it is silver plated.

Jean · 17th March 2018, 12:33 PM

Blade belonging to a royal family?

David · 17th March 2018, 03:00 PM

I honestly have not handled keris cengkrong nor really seen too many in photos, but this blade seems off to me. It may just be the angle of the photo, but the front of this blade looks like it was once a keris that had the entire gandik sheared off. The edge appears squared off. It this the way keris cengkrong always are or is it possible this blade was once a keris?

Arjuna · 19th March 2018, 12:38 PM

Cundrik not Cengkrong.

David · 19th March 2018, 04:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arjuna

Cundrik not Cengkrong.

Perhaps you could explain the difference for us Ajuna. I certainly see numerous blades just like this currently being offered up from Indonesian sources that refer to this type of blade as "Cengkrong".
I have also seen this style of blade referred to as "Cundrik", but Cundrik has also been used by numerous writers on keris (perhaps incorrectly) to describe this a ancient blade form.

Jean · 19th March 2018, 04:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David

Perhaps you could explain the difference for us Ajuna. I certainly see numerous blades just like this currently being offered up from Indonesian sources that refer to this type of blade as "Cengkrong".
I have also seen this style of blade referred to as "Cundrik", but Cundrik has also been used by numerous writers on keris (perhaps incorrectly) to describe this a ancient blade form.

Hello David,
Your blade is a cundrik sajen.
According to the books Dhapur and the EK, the differences between dapur cundrik and cengkrong are very minimal so they can be easily confused. They are usually straight blades but wavy blades are also found, especially with 5 luk.
Regards

Arjuna · 19th March 2018, 05:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David

Perhaps you could explain the difference for us Ajuna. I certainly see numerous blades just like this currently being offered up from Indonesian sources that refer to this type of blade as "Cengkrong".
I have also seen this style of blade referred to as "Cundrik", but Cundrik has also been used by numerous writers on keris (perhaps incorrectly) to describe this a ancient blade form.

I am sorry, cant tell the difference they look almost the same for me. Here are the pictures I found, maybe you know them already ...

Maybe the lurus ones have a reverse Ganja the pandawa none?
I was also told that this is a very old form of keris to be worn by warriors only.

Regards

David · 19th March 2018, 06:29 PM

Well, if were were to accept this last diagram as fact Arjuna i suppose that your blade would best be described as Cundrik Pandawa since it is both wavy and has no separate gonjo as the other two example do.
Though i am still suspicious of this blade in regards to my question i first made about it. This appears to a a blade that was has been reformed. The front edge near the base looks like it has been sheared off, leaving a flat surface. Can we see some sharper photos of this area of the blade? Can we see the way it fits into the sheath from an above view. Should we expect a Javanese blade form purported to possibly be from a royal family to carry a Madurese hilt form? I suspect this could possibly be a composite piece.

Arjuna · 19th March 2018, 06:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David

Well, if were were to accept this last diagram as fact Arjuna i suppose that your blade would best be described as Cundrik Pandawa since it is both wavy and has no separate gonjo as the other two example do.
Though i am still suspicious of this blade in regards to my question i first made about it. This appears to a a blade that was has been reformed. The front edge near the base looks like it has been sheared off, leaving a flat surface. Can we see some sharper photos of this area of the blade? Can we see the way it fits into the sheath from an above view. Should we expect a Javanese blade form purported to possibly be from a royal family to carry a Madurese hilt form? I suspect this could possibly be a composite piece.

I passed it on to my indonesian friend who desperately wanted it so I can make no more pictures. The Warangka was made for this keris with a fitting opening.

Regards

Jean · 19th March 2018, 07:21 PM

Another old cengkrong or cundrik blade with 5 luk and rather similar to Arjuna's specimen.
Regards

Athanase · 19th March 2018, 07:48 PM

I have an almost similar blade, but the hilt and scabbard are recent.

David · 19th March 2018, 09:41 PM

So no one wants to address my question about the squared-off nature of the "gandik" area of this blade?

16th March 2018, 12:24 PM	#1
Arjuna Member Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: Vienna Posts: 17	Ancient Keris Cengkrong for comment Hello to all! I recently found this Keris Cengkrong with an ancient very thin blade. Must have been highly esteemed by a previous owner according to the costly sarong (silver sheat, gading handle). An indonesian friend opined it to be tangguh kuno from pajajaran era, eventually previously owned by a royal family. What would you say? Thanks for your comments. regards Karl Attached Images

19th March 2018, 12:38 PM	#9
Arjuna Member Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: Vienna Posts: 17	Cundrik not Cengkrong. Attached Images

19th March 2018, 07:21 PM	#15
Jean Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,740	Another old cengkrong or cundrik blade with 5 luk and rather similar to Arjuna's specimen. Regards Attached Images

19th March 2018, 07:48 PM	#16
Athanase Member Join Date: Mar 2016 Location: Paris (France) Posts: 428	I have an almost similar blade, but the hilt and scabbard are recent. Attached Images

16th March 2018, 04:14 PM	#2
Paul B. Member Join Date: Nov 2017 Posts: 205	Ahhh yes I recognize this one, you got it from a Dutch guy! The bery tip end of the blade is broken.

16th March 2018, 04:15 PM	#3
Paul B. Member Join Date: Nov 2017 Posts: 205	Also think that the silver rim/band around the neck or joint of the sheath is missing ( it usually comes together with the button).

17th March 2018, 02:32 AM	#4
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,085	This style of scabbard, from the applicable period, is normally made in mamas, not silver. Has the material in this scabbard been tested and confirmed as silver?

17th March 2018, 07:56 AM	#5
Arjuna Member Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: Vienna Posts: 17	It was not tested, I was just told that it is silver or siver plated. But I think you are right its a bit too shiny. btw. What is Mamas made of? Just know it contains some Nickel.

17th March 2018, 09:35 AM	#6
Paul B. Member Join Date: Nov 2017 Posts: 205	The style of scabbard reminds me much more of a wooden example I recently handled and passed thru. Still believe it is silver plated.

17th March 2018, 12:33 PM	#7
Jean Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,740	Blade belonging to a royal family?

17th March 2018, 03:00 PM	#8
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,250	I honestly have not handled keris cengkrong nor really seen too many in photos, but this blade seems off to me. It may just be the angle of the photo, but the front of this blade looks like it was once a keris that had the entire gandik sheared off. The edge appears squared off. It this the way keris cengkrong always are or is it possible this blade was once a keris?

19th March 2018, 06:29 PM	#13
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,250	Well, if were were to accept this last diagram as fact Arjuna i suppose that your blade would best be described as Cundrik Pandawa since it is both wavy and has no separate gonjo as the other two example do. Though i am still suspicious of this blade in regards to my question i first made about it. This appears to a a blade that was has been reformed. The front edge near the base looks like it has been sheared off, leaving a flat surface. Can we see some sharper photos of this area of the blade? Can we see the way it fits into the sheath from an above view. Should we expect a Javanese blade form purported to possibly be from a royal family to carry a Madurese hilt form? I suspect this could possibly be a composite piece.

19th March 2018, 09:41 PM	#17
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,250	So no one wants to address my question about the squared-off nature of the "gandik" area of this blade?