South-East Asian sword with a Persian trade blade for discussion

Tatyana Dianova · 16th March 2018, 10:49 AM

You are absolutely right Norman - the beginning of the inscription is identical, but mine is a couple of words shorter. Thank you for the translation!

Drabant1701 · 16th March 2018, 11:58 AM

These blades are very interesting. I have one of my own so I have read about these kind of blades when given the chance. It is facinating beacause these blades really seem to have ended up almost everywhere. In Robert Hales "Islamic and oriental arms and armor" page 192, there is a sumatra sword with a blade that has the lion and "fulfiller" text, and on page 201 there is a indonesian parang that has a blade with the long quranic inscription. According to Hales these blades ended up in that region when turkish fighters answered a Jihad call, when the dutch occupied Indonesia.

It would seem a lot of these blades ended up in India. There are two examples in "Rajput arms and armour by Robert Elgood. He dates the blades to mid 19th century and being made in Caucasus for export
The quranic verse on one of those blades is translated to "Praise be to Allah, there is no strength nor power exept Allah" (page 529)

There is yet another such blade with indian fittings on page 219 in "A passion for indian arms" by Jens Nordlunde. That blade has the inscription "If it is the will of God, no power, no authority without God, the biggest the most powerful".

There is also lots more information in: the Arms Collecting Journal, Vol. 40 #1, 2002, The Persian Shamshir and the Signature of Assad Allah by Oliver Pinchot

Below picture of my trade blade. Its a heavy Kilij style sword, with the quranic inscription one one side and the lion and "fullfiller" on the other. As Tatyana wrote there is a good chance that these blades are wootz, mine is wootz but it has faded a could use an etch. But....etching swords is hard. I does however "ring" like a tuning fork if you strike it agains something (not hard of course

)

Jens Nordlunde · 16th March 2018, 05:24 PM

Hello Tatyana,
Yes the blade really is interesting, and the text seem to be on a number of blades. The text translates a bit differently, but that must be how the translater sees it.
See A Passion for Indian Arms, pp. 219-221. Here a detail is shown.

Tatyana Dianova · 16th March 2018, 10:14 PM

Great info on these blades (and great swords too)!
The Sumatra story seems true for my sword, since Kai means the lacquer work is Sumatran.
The Caucasian origin is a new theory for me, but I still wait for my copy of Rajput arms.
I have a feeling that these blades are always of good quality and made of good Wootz. They have similar decoration and inscriptions, but the general geometry and the fullers vary greatly, which makes me wonder.

Rick · 17th March 2018, 12:27 AM

Is that a scarf weld I see there?
Not uncommon with wootz blades.

Ferguson · 17th March 2018, 01:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick

Is that a scarf weld I see there?
Not uncommon with wootz blades.

Rick,
Being a retired engineer/machinist, it looks like a modern weld, either oxy acetylene, or even electric arc. But I could be wrong.
Interesting sword!

Steve

Tatyana Dianova · 17th March 2018, 09:31 PM

It is definitely a repair, not a scarf weld.

16th March 2018, 11:58 AM	#2
Drabant1701 Member Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: Sweden Posts: 181	These blades are very interesting. I have one of my own so I have read about these kind of blades when given the chance. It is facinating beacause these blades really seem to have ended up almost everywhere. In Robert Hales "Islamic and oriental arms and armor" page 192, there is a sumatra sword with a blade that has the lion and "fulfiller" text, and on page 201 there is a indonesian parang that has a blade with the long quranic inscription. According to Hales these blades ended up in that region when turkish fighters answered a Jihad call, when the dutch occupied Indonesia. It would seem a lot of these blades ended up in India. There are two examples in "Rajput arms and armour by Robert Elgood. He dates the blades to mid 19th century and being made in Caucasus for export The quranic verse on one of those blades is translated to "Praise be to Allah, there is no strength nor power exept Allah" (page 529) There is yet another such blade with indian fittings on page 219 in "A passion for indian arms" by Jens Nordlunde. That blade has the inscription "If it is the will of God, no power, no authority without God, the biggest the most powerful". There is also lots more information in: the Arms Collecting Journal, Vol. 40 #1, 2002, The Persian Shamshir and the Signature of Assad Allah by Oliver Pinchot Below picture of my trade blade. Its a heavy Kilij style sword, with the quranic inscription one one side and the lion and "fullfiller" on the other. As Tatyana wrote there is a good chance that these blades are wootz, mine is wootz but it has faded a could use an etch. But....etching swords is hard. I does however "ring" like a tuning fork if you strike it agains something (not hard of course ) Attached Images

16th March 2018, 05:24 PM	#3
Jens Nordlunde Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 2,718	Hello Tatyana, Yes the blade really is interesting, and the text seem to be on a number of blades. The text translates a bit differently, but that must be how the translater sees it. See A Passion for Indian Arms, pp. 219-221. Here a detail is shown. Attached Images

16th March 2018, 10:49 AM	#1
Tatyana Dianova Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 735	You are absolutely right Norman - the beginning of the inscription is identical, but mine is a couple of words shorter. Thank you for the translation!

16th March 2018, 10:14 PM	#4
Tatyana Dianova Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 735	Great info on these blades (and great swords too)! The Sumatra story seems true for my sword, since Kai means the lacquer work is Sumatran. The Caucasian origin is a new theory for me, but I still wait for my copy of Rajput arms. I have a feeling that these blades are always of good quality and made of good Wootz. They have similar decoration and inscriptions, but the general geometry and the fullers vary greatly, which makes me wonder.

17th March 2018, 12:27 AM	#5
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,336	Is that a scarf weld I see there? Not uncommon with wootz blades.

17th March 2018, 09:31 PM	#7
Tatyana Dianova Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 735	It is definitely a repair, not a scarf weld.