Poincon Identification?

fernando · 17th February 2018, 12:04 PM

Perhaps Richard, you should start by realizing that gunmakers often used more than one marking punzon, with slight variations; and that drawings pulled by book authors are not necessarily so exact as suc irons used.
If you compare the drawings in Lavin and Soler, you will notice that they are different; in Lavin, Luis's lion has some something in his paws and in Soler's he has nothing.
But if you look at actual irons that were used in those smiths guns, as illustrated and described in Catálogo de Arcabuceria Madrileña, you will see and read that both father and son marks have a fleur-de-lis in the right paw, although some time Luis doesn't use it. The more notable difference is that Juan used a radiant star in the top left corner, although his father also eventually used it.
... If i am not talking nonsense ... Fernando, tocayo ?

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Fernando K · 17th February 2018, 03:18 PM

Hello

I think that with the elements that Fernando has uploaded, the issue is completely clarified

Affectionately Fernando K

Pukka Bundook · 17th February 2018, 07:36 PM

Thank you Gentlemen.

There appears quite a variety of stamps used. I had expected one to have been used rather than numerous closely related specimens.

Thank again for clarifying the position!

very best wishes,
Richard.

fernando · 17th February 2018, 08:54 PM

As long as it doesn't prevent you from sleeping, Rihard my friend

.

Fernando K · 18th February 2018, 10:59 AM

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ghlight=Santos

Hello

Here is a case of SANT0S gun with magnificient images

Fernando K

Pukka Bundook · 18th February 2018, 03:01 PM

Dear Fernando K,

Thank you for the link!

I find it very interesting that in this punzon, (See I remembered Fernado!)
The lion is holding in his paw what appears to be a bunch of flowers, the same as in the one I show in the opening post.
The only difference being the star is not present in the OP.
Actually, on looking at the punzon again in the OP I think I Do see a star....

As Jean -Luc's beautiful little pistol is by Juan Santos, and the above by Luis, it again shows a variation on what we see in the printed page, for both father and son.
All very interesting.

Very best wishes,

Richard.

17th February 2018, 12:04 PM	#1
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	Perhaps Richard, you should start by realizing that gunmakers often used more than one marking punzon, with slight variations; and that drawings pulled by book authors are not necessarily so exact as suc irons used. If you compare the drawings in Lavin and Soler, you will notice that they are different; in Lavin, Luis's lion has some something in his paws and in Soler's he has nothing. But if you look at actual irons that were used in those smiths guns, as illustrated and described in Catálogo de Arcabuceria Madrileña, you will see and read that both father and son marks have a fleur-de-lis in the right paw, although some time Luis doesn't use it. The more notable difference is that Juan used a radiant star in the top left corner, although his father also eventually used it. ... If i am not talking nonsense ... Fernando, tocayo ? . , Attached Images Last edited by fernando; 17th February 2018 at 08:51 PM. Reason: Reformating

18th February 2018, 03:01 PM	#6
Pukka Bundook Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 803	Dear Fernando K, Thank you for the link! I find it very interesting that in this punzon, (See I remembered Fernado!) The lion is holding in his paw what appears to be a bunch of flowers, the same as in the one I show in the opening post. The only difference being the star is not present in the OP. Actually, on looking at the punzon again in the OP I think I Do see a star.... As Jean -Luc's beautiful little pistol is by Juan Santos, and the above by Luis, it again shows a variation on what we see in the printed page, for both father and son. All very interesting. Very best wishes, Richard. Attached Images Last edited by Pukka Bundook; 18th February 2018 at 03:27 PM.

17th February 2018, 03:18 PM	#2
Fernando K Member Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 671	Hello I think that with the elements that Fernando has uploaded, the issue is completely clarified Affectionately Fernando K

17th February 2018, 07:36 PM	#3
Pukka Bundook Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 803	Thank you Gentlemen. There appears quite a variety of stamps used. I had expected one to have been used rather than numerous closely related specimens. Thank again for clarifying the position! very best wishes, Richard.

17th February 2018, 08:54 PM	#4
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	As long as it doesn't prevent you from sleeping, Rihard my friend .

18th February 2018, 10:59 AM	#5
Fernando K Member Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 671	http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ghlight=Santos Hello Here is a case of SANT0S gun with magnificient images Fernando K