Which deity does this Bali handle represent?

A. G. Maisey · 9th February 2018, 02:40 AM

Colour symbolism in Bali is related to the Balinese Mandala, as an example this is the symbolism in the Mandala, related to SOUTH:-

South -- Kelod -- To the Sea -- Brahma -- Saraswati -- Red -- Impurity, strife, coarseness, lack of self control -- Liver -- Pigs & rubbish

In the case of BLACK, the relationship in the Mandala is to the NORTH and the deity concerned is WISNU. In this case of WISNU, the colour can also be GREEN.

The most popular colour combination in traditionally mounted hilts is WHITE - BLACK - RED, which is representative of the Balinese Trinity:- Iswara (or Siwa*) - Wisnu - Brahma.
* in very simplistic terms "Iswara" can be understood as being the same as Siwa. This is an incorrect but easy to relate to understanding. Iswara can mean different things in different contexts and in different strands of Hindu belief. A slightly more complex way of thinking of Iswara is that Iswara is the universal oneness that connects all. In the Mandala Siwa embraces mixed colours, but because the mixing of colours creates WHITE, Siwa can also be understood in terms of WHITE.

If the colour used in something is intended to relate to only one deity, it could be expected that the colour will tie to the one deity in terms of Mandala related symbolism, but if the colour relationship is to more than one deity, or more than one Mandala related concept then the colours will indicate what that relationship is likely to be.

So, yes, in Balinese belief colour is symbolic, but it requires a great deal of understanding to be able to interpret the many possible relationships. It is really a job for a specialist, it is probably sufficient for us if we have a broad understanding of the relationships and that they can and often do, exist.

In respect of probable age of this hilt, I am inclined to place the selut in the span of 1960 - 1980. I believe the hilt probably dates from the same period. This is opinion only, based upon what I know of style related to period in Balinese craft-works.

Battara · 11th February 2018, 12:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

Colour symbolism in Bali is related to the Balinese Mandala, as an example this is the symbolism in the Mandala

Thank you so much Alan for elaborating on this: I have always wondered and now your explanation fills in a lot of holes for us (and especially me

).

A. G. Maisey · 11th February 2018, 07:22 AM

My explanation of Balinese symbolism is very superficial, and about all I've done is to confirm that, yeah, symbolism does exist. Something that we already know. the info that I put up comes from a lady named Murni, who was the informant for Jonathon Copeland's "Secrets of Bali".

I would guess that if you google "Bali + mandala + Murni" you will get a whole lot more.

David · 11th February 2018, 07:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

the info that I put up comes from a lady named Murni, who was the informant for Jonathon Copeland's "Secrets of Bali".

Alan, do you recommend this book? I have not read it yet.

A. G. Maisey · 11th February 2018, 08:40 PM

Most wholeheartedly David.

It will open your eyes to what real , traditional attitudes in Bali actually are.

It is a low priced book, and the production is less than wonderful, but the content is as good as you will get in this field. Jonathan Copeland is a British lawyer, who has had a long association with Bali, and in my understanding now lives there. I have met with both Ni Wayan Murni, and Jonathan Copeland and both these people are genuine, feet-on-the-ground people.

What you will read in "Secrets" is not the rose coloured drivel of some newly converted Bali enthusiast, it is the real thing.

"Secrets of Bali --- Fresh Light on the Morning of the World", Jonathan Copeland, Ni Wayan Murni, Orchid Press, PO Box 1046, Silom Post Office, Bangkok 10504, Thailand, ISBN: 978-974-524-118-3

It is not difficult to find, throw the ISBN into BOOKFINDER and you will get a lot of choices.

Paul de Souza · 12th February 2018, 03:02 AM

Thank you all for the feedback given. I have learnt so much in the past few days. I am not familiar with Bali keris and the iconography and symbolism associated with it.

The reason I asked about the hilt was that it did not seem to conform with older hilts forms on the net or in books, given its lifelike facial features. Also the ivory was clearly stained for an aged effect but the patina and wear in parts seem to indicate some age. I did not take much notice of the selut till it was mentioned here. Well a 40 plus year old piece is not really "young".

The blade does not have the Balinese polish and I have asked myself if it could be a Madura blade. The wood in the sheath doesn't seem to have the pelet effect of older pieces eventhough I was told it is pelet wood.

I acquired the piece in the mid to late 1990s. Din know much about keris then (even now..dunno much...new things to learn, old assumptions overturned). It was and is a lovely piece and really heartening to see the level of workmanship from that period. I will attach full pics of it in the next post. Might be great for discussions.

David · 12th February 2018, 05:09 AM

Thanks Alan. I had it waiting in my Amazon basket and just placed the order after you recommendation.

Battara · 14th February 2018, 01:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul de Souza

The wood in the sheath doesn't seem to have the pelet effect of older pieces eventhough I was told it is pelet wood.

From what I can see in the pictures, this scabbard, especially the wrangka, is pelet wood.

I will say though that I have heard that pelet wood is becoming endangered and good quality has been hard to come by since the 1990s.

9th February 2018, 02:40 AM	#1
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,015	Colour symbolism in Bali is related to the Balinese Mandala, as an example this is the symbolism in the Mandala, related to SOUTH:- South -- Kelod -- To the Sea -- Brahma -- Saraswati -- Red -- Impurity, strife, coarseness, lack of self control -- Liver -- Pigs & rubbish In the case of BLACK, the relationship in the Mandala is to the NORTH and the deity concerned is WISNU. In this case of WISNU, the colour can also be GREEN. The most popular colour combination in traditionally mounted hilts is WHITE - BLACK - RED, which is representative of the Balinese Trinity:- Iswara (or Siwa) - Wisnu - Brahma. in very simplistic terms "Iswara" can be understood as being the same as Siwa. This is an incorrect but easy to relate to understanding. Iswara can mean different things in different contexts and in different strands of Hindu belief. A slightly more complex way of thinking of Iswara is that Iswara is the universal oneness that connects all. In the Mandala Siwa embraces mixed colours, but because the mixing of colours creates WHITE, Siwa can also be understood in terms of WHITE. If the colour used in something is intended to relate to only one deity, it could be expected that the colour will tie to the one deity in terms of Mandala related symbolism, but if the colour relationship is to more than one deity, or more than one Mandala related concept then the colours will indicate what that relationship is likely to be. So, yes, in Balinese belief colour is symbolic, but it requires a great deal of understanding to be able to interpret the many possible relationships. It is really a job for a specialist, it is probably sufficient for us if we have a broad understanding of the relationships and that they can and often do, exist. In respect of probable age of this hilt, I am inclined to place the selut in the span of 1960 - 1980. I believe the hilt probably dates from the same period. This is opinion only, based upon what I know of style related to period in Balinese craft-works.

11th February 2018, 07:22 AM	#3
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,015	My explanation of Balinese symbolism is very superficial, and about all I've done is to confirm that, yeah, symbolism does exist. Something that we already know. the info that I put up comes from a lady named Murni, who was the informant for Jonathon Copeland's "Secrets of Bali". I would guess that if you google "Bali + mandala + Murni" you will get a whole lot more.

11th February 2018, 08:40 PM	#5
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,015	Most wholeheartedly David. It will open your eyes to what real , traditional attitudes in Bali actually are. It is a low priced book, and the production is less than wonderful, but the content is as good as you will get in this field. Jonathan Copeland is a British lawyer, who has had a long association with Bali, and in my understanding now lives there. I have met with both Ni Wayan Murni, and Jonathan Copeland and both these people are genuine, feet-on-the-ground people. What you will read in "Secrets" is not the rose coloured drivel of some newly converted Bali enthusiast, it is the real thing. "Secrets of Bali --- Fresh Light on the Morning of the World", Jonathan Copeland, Ni Wayan Murni, Orchid Press, PO Box 1046, Silom Post Office, Bangkok 10504, Thailand, ISBN: 978-974-524-118-3 It is not difficult to find, throw the ISBN into BOOKFINDER and you will get a lot of choices.

12th February 2018, 03:02 AM	#6
Paul de Souza Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Singapore Posts: 66	Thank you all for the feedback given. I have learnt so much in the past few days. I am not familiar with Bali keris and the iconography and symbolism associated with it. The reason I asked about the hilt was that it did not seem to conform with older hilts forms on the net or in books, given its lifelike facial features. Also the ivory was clearly stained for an aged effect but the patina and wear in parts seem to indicate some age. I did not take much notice of the selut till it was mentioned here. Well a 40 plus year old piece is not really "young". The blade does not have the Balinese polish and I have asked myself if it could be a Madura blade. The wood in the sheath doesn't seem to have the pelet effect of older pieces eventhough I was told it is pelet wood. I acquired the piece in the mid to late 1990s. Din know much about keris then (even now..dunno much...new things to learn, old assumptions overturned). It was and is a lovely piece and really heartening to see the level of workmanship from that period. I will attach full pics of it in the next post. Might be great for discussions.

12th February 2018, 05:09 AM	#7
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,218	Thanks Alan. I had it waiting in my Amazon basket and just placed the order after you recommendation.