an old keris tok chu..but is it from the master?

David · 10th January 2018, 07:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick

Quite handy on a Binnacle.

OK Rick, i'll bite...
What on Earth is THAT!

Rick · 10th January 2018, 09:34 PM

Flyovers...

The Binnacle holds the compass on a ship.
The two iron balls help to keep it properly 'tuned' so to speak.
The red one is on the left or port side of the vessel; green is on the starboard or right side as are the running lights on said vessel.

My Old Man used to give me a lot of grief about it when I was a kid because channel bouys are marked the same way and if you make a mistake woe be upon you..

When you leave a harbor you leave the red bouys on the left side of the vessel; returning, you leave them on the right; thus red, right, returning.

I remembered it this way: Port wine is red, both Port and Left have 4 letters.

I love Port.

David · 10th January 2018, 10:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick

I love Port.

Aye Aye Capt'n...but i prefer scotch.

Green · 11th January 2018, 02:07 AM

David;

The tok chu style pics you showed in #7 are almost certainly a very recent copies of tok chu blade and made in kelantan... they are easily found on sales here and we can even commission keris makers to make to whatever size you like. they show typical tok chu archetype but some keris 'esperts' over here claim there are at least a few more tok chu style/dhapur which to me look very different from this classic type.

Shieh

Welcome to the forum!
Yes that's che Gu nasir i mean ... a silat teacher from kelantan and one of the keris experts that sometimes are asked to be keris judge in keris competitions.. A rather moody character prone to giving philosophical advice and criticisms to his students on fb postings!

I did show this blade to him in private message and his comments is rather surprising and I'm in no way able to agree or contradict him because I simply don't know enough. Here's the translation of his comment:

" I am of the opinion that it is Alang Petani. To me this keris (type) is earlier than pandai saras. Many people disagree with me but i feel that this is the early design of keris patani, kelantan and pahang."

Shieh · 11th January 2018, 10:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Green

David;

The tok chu style pics you showed in #7 are almost certainly a very recent copies of tok chu blade and made in kelantan... they are easily found on sales here and we can even commission keris makers to make to whatever size you like. they show typical tok chu archetype but some keris 'esperts' over here claim there are at least a few more tok chu style/dhapur which to me look very different from this classic type.

Shieh

Welcome to the forum!
Yes that's che Gu nasir i mean ... a silat teacher from kelantan and one of the keris experts that sometimes are asked to be keris judge in keris competitions.. A rather moody character prone to giving philosophical advice and criticisms to his students on fb postings!

I did show this blade to him in private message and his comments is rather surprising and I'm in no way able to agree or contradict him because I simply don't know enough. Here's the translation of his comment:

" I am of the opinion that it is Alang Petani. To me this keris (type) is earlier than pandai saras. Many people disagree with me but i feel that this is the early design of keris patani, kelantan and pahang."

Good evening!

I know even less to state anything here regarding Chekgu Nasir's opinion of the blade in discussion. However, it runs counter to my impression of 'Alang Patani', which to my impression, Alang blades has always been narrow in relation to its width, and possess somewhat simpler dapur. To me, CG Nasir's opinion opens up an entire path of discovery on the Tok Chu form, an interesting prospect indeed. The challenge of this is that there is almost no old/original artifacts or documentation to substantiate, apart from anecdotal sources IMVHO. I stand corrected and am keen to learn more.

David · 11th January 2018, 06:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Green

David;

The tok chu style pics you showed in #7 are almost certainly a very recent copies of tok chu blade and made in kelantan... they are easily found on sales here and we can even commission keris makers to make to whatever size you like. they show typical tok chu archetype but some keris 'esperts' over here claim there are at least a few more tok chu style/dhapur which to me look very different from this classic type.

Yes Green, i am quite aware that these are indeed NOT keris actually made by Tok Chu. I only posted them to present a some clear examples of keris that display the features that i have come to understand as the Tok Chi "style" of keris. That is exactly what we were discussing in some depth in the thread i linked for you in my very first post here. I hope you found time to read through that. It was also stated there that some people in the area consider more than one style of keris to be attributed to Tok Chu and feel it is correct to use that name for all those styles regardless of how dissimilar their forms might be. In that linked thread i argue that it seems to be a rather confusing way to categorize keris if multiple, obviously different dhapurs are given the same exact name.
That said, i will reiterate that while your keris does seem to bear some resemblance to the form i understand as Tok Chu (and therefore might very well rightfully be called Keris Tok Chu), it would be quite impossible, without some well documented provenance of lineage, to say with any certainty that this blade was actually made by Tok Chu himself. Though like yourself, i am in no position to disagree with your local expert who seems to find a completely different designation for this blade.

David · 11th January 2018, 06:43 PM

Green, here is another link about Tok Chu keris that you might find useful.
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=7618
One other point i might add to you initial question. My understanding (please correct me if wrong) is that Tok Chu was producing keris sometime around the end of the 19th century, so relatively not really that long ago. Your keris shows erosion and wear that if genuine would probably place it's origin before the time of Tok Chu. If anyone has any correction to this information on the era of Tok Chu i would appreciate it. My info comes only from "word of mouth".

10th January 2018, 09:34 PM	#2
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,336	Flyovers... The Binnacle holds the compass on a ship. The two iron balls help to keep it properly 'tuned' so to speak. The red one is on the left or port side of the vessel; green is on the starboard or right side as are the running lights on said vessel. My Old Man used to give me a lot of grief about it when I was a kid because channel bouys are marked the same way and if you make a mistake woe be upon you.. When you leave a harbor you leave the red bouys on the left side of the vessel; returning, you leave them on the right; thus red, right, returning. I remembered it this way: Port wine is red, both Port and Left have 4 letters. I love Port.

11th January 2018, 02:07 AM	#4
Green Member Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: Malaysia Posts: 321	David; The tok chu style pics you showed in #7 are almost certainly a very recent copies of tok chu blade and made in kelantan... they are easily found on sales here and we can even commission keris makers to make to whatever size you like. they show typical tok chu archetype but some keris 'esperts' over here claim there are at least a few more tok chu style/dhapur which to me look very different from this classic type. Shieh Welcome to the forum! Yes that's che Gu nasir i mean ... a silat teacher from kelantan and one of the keris experts that sometimes are asked to be keris judge in keris competitions.. A rather moody character prone to giving philosophical advice and criticisms to his students on fb postings! I did show this blade to him in private message and his comments is rather surprising and I'm in no way able to agree or contradict him because I simply don't know enough. Here's the translation of his comment: " I am of the opinion that it is Alang Petani. To me this keris (type) is earlier than pandai saras. Many people disagree with me but i feel that this is the early design of keris patani, kelantan and pahang."

11th January 2018, 06:43 PM	#7
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,211	Green, here is another link about Tok Chu keris that you might find useful. http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=7618 One other point i might add to you initial question. My understanding (please correct me if wrong) is that Tok Chu was producing keris sometime around the end of the 19th century, so relatively not really that long ago. Your keris shows erosion and wear that if genuine would probably place it's origin before the time of Tok Chu. If anyone has any correction to this information on the era of Tok Chu i would appreciate it. My info comes only from "word of mouth". Last edited by David; 11th January 2018 at 08:38 PM.