Wootz Jambiya

mariusgmioc · 10th January 2018, 01:31 PM

Hello Bryce,

The blade is unmistakeably Persian (18th century, my guess), and of highest quality Kara Taban wootz. Wow!

The mountings, I don't know... maybe Kurdish?!

Battara · 10th January 2018, 10:28 PM

I totally agree that the beautiful blade is Persian. The grip though looks more Indian to me and not Kurdish.

mariusgmioc · 11th January 2018, 10:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Battara

I totally agree that the beautiful blade is Persian. The grip though looks more Indian to me and not Kurdish.

Yes, you nailed it, the hilt and the scabbard (with coloured cloth - I have Tulwar with somehow similar scabbard) look quite Indian.

Kubur · 11th January 2018, 11:54 AM

Sorry guys

I don' like to be pessimistic but
the sheat / scabbard is Indian and not very old;
the hilt with the silver at the back is classic from South Arabian jambiya or khanjar;
in an Indian context, I'll say that it's a Jewish hilt from India or Yemen;
the blade is recent fake or printed wootz (if you scratch it'll disapear).
To me it's a recent fake Indian jambiya...made of different marts
the hilt is good & old, the blade is recent
Sorry

mariusgmioc · 11th January 2018, 01:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kubur

Sorry guys

I don' like to be pessimistic but
the sheat / scabbard is Indian and not very old;
the hilt with the silver at the back is classic from South Arabian jambiya or khanjar;
in an Indian context, I'll say that it's a Jewish hilt from India or Yemen;
the blade is recent fake or printed wootz (if you scratch it'll disapear).
To me it's a recent fake Indian jambiya...made of different marts
the hilt is good & old, the blade is recent
Sorry

Hello Kubur,

While you may be right about the hilt and the sheath, I am certain you are wrong, very wrong, about the blade.

I have many wootz blades, many etched myself, that show exactly the same type of local fading you highlighted on this blade.

The blade is Wootz all right in its finest form!

Moreover, the lobed pommel doesn't look very Arabic to me but much more Indian, as I saw several Tiger Tooth Daggers with pommels somehow similar to this one.

Ian · 11th January 2018, 03:40 PM

Good to see the divergent and spirited discussion on this interesting piece. Perhaps a few more of our Indo-Persian experts might like to comment on this one.

Ian

Bryce · 11th January 2018, 08:15 PM

G'day Guys,

Thanks for your comments.

Kubur, when you have the jambiya in hand you can see the wootz is definitely real and the scabbard is old.

The hilt does have three lobes similar to tiger tooth jambiyas, but the overall form is different. The guy I bought this from said he associates this type of hilt with Kalimantan, Indonesia. Can anyone else back this up?

Cheers,
Bryce

RSWORD · 12th January 2018, 02:06 AM

Nothing new about this piece. The blade is definitely wootz. The spots where the pattern is gone is where the edges were probably heat treated and not perfectly controlled causing the pattern to burn out. The contrast and depth of pattern rules out any artificial method. The scabbard shows extensive wear on the side worn against the body and the fabric exhibits a good bit of fading. I would call the hilt style Indo-Arab, maybe Hyderabad, with a funky replaced side. The ivory has a nice mellow patina and is old. The white metal mounts were probably a late 19th to early 20th century “fix” for a missing grip slab. Whether done in its working life or in a late 19th, early 20th century bazaar is anyone’s guess.

11th January 2018, 11:54 AM	#4
Kubur Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Posts: 2,145	Sorry guys I don' like to be pessimistic but the sheat / scabbard is Indian and not very old; the hilt with the silver at the back is classic from South Arabian jambiya or khanjar; in an Indian context, I'll say that it's a Jewish hilt from India or Yemen; the blade is recent fake or printed wootz (if you scratch it'll disapear). To me it's a recent fake Indian jambiya...made of different marts the hilt is good & old, the blade is recent Sorry Attached Images

10th January 2018, 01:31 PM	#1
mariusgmioc Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Location: Austria Posts: 1,911	Hello Bryce, The blade is unmistakeably Persian (18th century, my guess), and of highest quality Kara Taban wootz. Wow! The mountings, I don't know... maybe Kurdish?!

10th January 2018, 10:28 PM	#2
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,280	I totally agree that the beautiful blade is Persian. The grip though looks more Indian to me and not Kurdish.

11th January 2018, 03:40 PM	#6
Ian Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Aussie Bush Posts: 4,399	Good to see the divergent and spirited discussion on this interesting piece. Perhaps a few more of our Indo-Persian experts might like to comment on this one. Ian

11th January 2018, 08:15 PM	#7
Bryce Member Join Date: Aug 2017 Location: North Queensland, Australia Posts: 189	G'day Guys, Thanks for your comments. Kubur, when you have the jambiya in hand you can see the wootz is definitely real and the scabbard is old. The hilt does have three lobes similar to tiger tooth jambiyas, but the overall form is different. The guy I bought this from said he associates this type of hilt with Kalimantan, Indonesia. Can anyone else back this up? Cheers, Bryce

12th January 2018, 02:06 AM	#8
RSWORD Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Greensboro, NC Posts: 1,087	Nothing new about this piece. The blade is definitely wootz. The spots where the pattern is gone is where the edges were probably heat treated and not perfectly controlled causing the pattern to burn out. The contrast and depth of pattern rules out any artificial method. The scabbard shows extensive wear on the side worn against the body and the fabric exhibits a good bit of fading. I would call the hilt style Indo-Arab, maybe Hyderabad, with a funky replaced side. The ivory has a nice mellow patina and is old. The white metal mounts were probably a late 19th to early 20th century “fix” for a missing grip slab. Whether done in its working life or in a late 19th, early 20th century bazaar is anyone’s guess.