Banten? Keris

Jean · 5th January 2018, 10:29 AM

As you now can see the pics of the 2 krisses (from Athanase and Dresden #2886) I would like to initiate a comparison of the blades for your comments:
Both blades have a similar dapur with the following ricikan: smooth gandik, ada-ada, pejetan, long tikel alis & sraweyan (or short kruwingan), double sogokan, and greneng. Jensen calls this dapur pendawa but this is not correct as the blades have no kembang kacang? I cannot check the reference book Dhapur but this particular dapur is not listed in the EK so probably not a Central Java standard. This is not surprising if the blades do not originate from Central Java.
The differences between the 2 blades which I can notice are as follows:
. The Dresden blade has a thingil on the ganja while Ahanase's kris has a full greneng (double rondha). The ganja of the Dresden kris is not standard for a Banten kris and may have been replaced.
. The pejetan of the Dresden blade is slightly boto adeg (brick standing-up) while the pejetan of Athanase's blade is slightly boto rubuh (brick laying down).
. the Dresden blade is more worn and has less visible pamor than Athanase's kris and it may be older (before 1671).

My question is as follows:
Banten is not a recognized tangguh according to the Central Java classification, it was a trading center so the blades from Banten may have originated from elsewhere in Java (I hardly see any differences between the blades from Banten and Blambangan in the Krisdisk for instance). Accordingly it would not be surprising to find some slight differences in the ricikan of these blades.
If the Dresden blade is classified as from Banten (probably the area where it was purchased), and considering the small differences between the 2 blades, is it justified to reject the Banten classification (or at least origin) for Athanase's blade and what is the proposed alternative, Pajajaran? The Pajajaran kingdom was conquered by Banten in 1580 so it probably no longer existed when this blade was made, and the style of greneng of Athanase's blade (deep and sharp) does not match with the style of Pajajaran greneng (shallow) as shown on Alan's sketch. Also the ganja of Athanase's kris is curved on the back side (sebit rontal?) while the ganja of Pajajaran blades are flat and with parallel faces according to Alan' sketch.
For your consideration and comments.

Regards

5th January 2018, 10:29 AM	#24
Jean Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,740	As you now can see the pics of the 2 krisses (from Athanase and Dresden #2886) I would like to initiate a comparison of the blades for your comments: Both blades have a similar dapur with the following ricikan: smooth gandik, ada-ada, pejetan, long tikel alis & sraweyan (or short kruwingan), double sogokan, and greneng. Jensen calls this dapur pendawa but this is not correct as the blades have no kembang kacang? I cannot check the reference book Dhapur but this particular dapur is not listed in the EK so probably not a Central Java standard. This is not surprising if the blades do not originate from Central Java. The differences between the 2 blades which I can notice are as follows: . The Dresden blade has a thingil on the ganja while Ahanase's kris has a full greneng (double rondha). The ganja of the Dresden kris is not standard for a Banten kris and may have been replaced. . The pejetan of the Dresden blade is slightly boto adeg (brick standing-up) while the pejetan of Athanase's blade is slightly boto rubuh (brick laying down). . the Dresden blade is more worn and has less visible pamor than Athanase's kris and it may be older (before 1671). My question is as follows: Banten is not a recognized tangguh according to the Central Java classification, it was a trading center so the blades from Banten may have originated from elsewhere in Java (I hardly see any differences between the blades from Banten and Blambangan in the Krisdisk for instance). Accordingly it would not be surprising to find some slight differences in the ricikan of these blades. If the Dresden blade is classified as from Banten (probably the area where it was purchased), and considering the small differences between the 2 blades, is it justified to reject the Banten classification (or at least origin) for Athanase's blade and what is the proposed alternative, Pajajaran? The Pajajaran kingdom was conquered by Banten in 1580 so it probably no longer existed when this blade was made, and the style of greneng of Athanase's blade (deep and sharp) does not match with the style of Pajajaran greneng (shallow) as shown on Alan's sketch. Also the ganja of Athanase's kris is curved on the back side (sebit rontal?) while the ganja of Pajajaran blades are flat and with parallel faces according to Alan' sketch. For your consideration and comments. Regards