Banten? Keris

Athanase · 2nd January 2018, 10:53 PM

Ok Alan, I just repeated what was said in the other topic because I did not know what to write as a title.
I realize that I had forgotten to put the photo of the back of the handle.

A. G. Maisey · 3rd January 2018, 12:42 AM

No problem Athanese, I'm only talking about the keris itself, that is, the wilah, or blade. I have only passing interest in the dress, that could come from anywhere, and should not influence classification of the blade.

I understand "Banten" as title for the thread, that seems to be what was agreed previously, but I use different parameters to most people and I do have the advantage of having handled these Dresden keris and photographed them, which means I have notes and perhaps a dozen or more photos of each keris.

Jean · 3rd January 2018, 12:20 PM

Hello Athanase,
Do you know the history or provenance of the kris and what is the blade length excluding the pesi?
Regards

Athanase · 3rd January 2018, 02:55 PM

I have no information on it and the seller is a dealer specialized in militaria (he also had 2 spear points possibly Thai and a Vietnamese Dao, the rest being European militaria).
(Fortunately, it was not an auction and I was one of the first to see the announcement! )

The length of the blade is 37cm.

kai · 3rd January 2018, 03:20 PM

Hello Séverin,

Quote:

Fortunately, it was not an auction and I was one of the first to see the announcement!

Lucky you!

Quote:

The length of the blade is 37cm.

Thanks!

I guess, you didn't remove the hilt yet?

Regards,
Kai

kai · 3rd January 2018, 03:23 PM

quoted from another thread: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showpo...2&postcount=41

Quote:

Originally Posted by kai

Hello Séverin,

As you'll have noticed, you certainly lucked out on these 2 keris!

It is a relatively early JD hilt which still shows some features of it cousins from the northern Jawa coast. Very nice craftsmanship!

The second keris is exceptional and shows the classic workmanship. It exhibits a cunning similarity to keris #2886 from the Dresden museum (provenance dating from 1671): only the kruwingan of your piece are shorter; examples with a plain gandik combined with "full" greneng are quite rare, anyway. Keris #2899 from the Dresden museum (provenance dating from 1676) is also similar.

BTW, the mendak is also of special interest: I can't remember any close matches but some semblance might be seen here:
Jakarta museum E 261 (a gift of the Mataram court)
Zeevaartschool (Kweekschool voor de Zeevaart), Amsterdam [stolen] (provenance dating from 1692)

Close-ups with high resolution would be great for detailed discussions!

Regards,
Kai

kai · 3rd January 2018, 03:25 PM

Alan's post quoted from the other thread: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showpo...9&postcount=42

Quote:

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

These comments are relative to the blade only of the second keris.

In my opinion this is not a Banten blade.

Typically the Banten wilah has a boto adeg blumbangan, the blumbangan of this keris is square.

There are two possibilities:- Mataram or Pajajaran

Condition and garap of the blade implies Mataram, but the dress is contrary to this.

It is very difficult to consider Pajajaran as possible because I have never seen a blade accepted as Pajajaran in such fine condition as this one:- I have no basis for comparison. However, the slightly concave gandhik is not a feature usually found in a Mataram blade, and a ron dha of this style is not typically associated with Mataram. So, although difficult, my inclination is to give this blade as Pajajaran.

In any case, it is old, it is fine, it is a very desireable.

Dresden 2886 has a Mataram blumbangan, square but not particulary large; the body cross section is the typical Tuban rotan, it does not have a ron dha that is classifiable, ie, it does have a ron dha but that ron dha cannot be aligned to an accepted form, however, I note that there is a possibility of corrosive damage to the greneng of 2886, which has impacted the ron dha; 2886 lacks kruwingan. However, the pawakan is similar to the pawakan of the keris under discussion.

Kai, I can see no similarity at all between Dresden 2899 and the keris under discussion. Dresden 2899 even uses a metuk instead of mendak and is of totally different dhapur and garap. Can you please tell me what the similarities are? Thanks.

Athanase · 3rd January 2018, 03:25 PM

The hilt is solidly fixed, and as it's split at the base, I didn't dare to force it to remove it for fear of breaking it.

2nd January 2018, 10:53 PM	#1
Athanase Member Join Date: Mar 2016 Location: Paris (France) Posts: 420	Ok Alan, I just repeated what was said in the other topic because I did not know what to write as a title. I realize that I had forgotten to put the photo of the back of the handle. Attached Images

3rd January 2018, 12:42 AM	#2
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,015	No problem Athanese, I'm only talking about the keris itself, that is, the wilah, or blade. I have only passing interest in the dress, that could come from anywhere, and should not influence classification of the blade. I understand "Banten" as title for the thread, that seems to be what was agreed previously, but I use different parameters to most people and I do have the advantage of having handled these Dresden keris and photographed them, which means I have notes and perhaps a dozen or more photos of each keris.

3rd January 2018, 12:20 PM	#3
Jean Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,740	Hello Athanase, Do you know the history or provenance of the kris and what is the blade length excluding the pesi? Regards

3rd January 2018, 02:55 PM	#4
Athanase Member Join Date: Mar 2016 Location: Paris (France) Posts: 420	I have no information on it and the seller is a dealer specialized in militaria (he also had 2 spear points possibly Thai and a Vietnamese Dao, the rest being European militaria). (Fortunately, it was not an auction and I was one of the first to see the announcement! ) The length of the blade is 37cm.

3rd January 2018, 03:25 PM	#8
Athanase Member Join Date: Mar 2016 Location: Paris (France) Posts: 420	The hilt is solidly fixed, and as it's split at the base, I didn't dare to force it to remove it for fear of breaking it.