Omani Matchlock Barrel - Abu Fathilah

[rickystl]

Originally Posted by Pukka Bundook

Richard G,

I too have seen these barrels obviously stocked up in Scinde fashion, and wondered about their originating there. Very interesting !
I do not recall seeing more than one stocked in toradar fashion, and came to the "conclusion" that likely these were indeed Persian barrels traded up into Scinde as well as Oman. This however may be all wrong, and maybe Scinde Did produce these barrels. There appears very few examples for us to work off.

Philip & Rick,

As these barrels appear to all have Persian (?) stampings at the breech, I think wherever they were made they are copies of European barrels made in a Very similar manner and are very old.. As they have usually un-drilled tangs, I see this as being copied from European tangs, but in this case mounted in a different manner and the tang not used as support or fastening.
Henry V111's barrels on his breech-loaders are Northern Italian products, and are Very similar in the fluting of the barrels to these mystery pieces.

All very interesting!
Richard.

Hi Richard.
Thanks for your response. I, personally, have not seen a Sindh or Torador gun with this fluted barrel. Doesn't mean they don't exist. Interesting that you've seen even a couple examples. At present, I too am in the school that these barrels, in this form, have a Persian origin. Problem is also that there are so few genuine all-Persian made specimens to examine. A while back there was an entire Thread delving into this. A real curiosity.
By the way, I took the breech tang screw out of this gun to examine. Sure enough, the hole in the tang was drilled later by the builder to accept a somple wood screw. Darn. But it confirms your analysis.

Rick

[grendolino]

Originally Posted by rickystl

Hi Richard.
Thanks for your response. I, personally, have not seen a Sindh or Torador gun with this fluted barrel. Doesn't mean they don't exist. Interesting that you've seen even a couple examples. At present, I too am in the school that these barrels, in this form, have a Persian origin. Problem is also that there are so few genuine all-Persian made specimens to examine. A while back there was an entire Thread delving into this. A real curiosity.
(...)
Rick

Isn't this one quite similar fluted barrel stocked in poor jezail style?

[Philip]

That sure is a nice one! Is the bore rifled? Any sign of twist forging? The flat-bottomed channels with square ends take a lot of skilled labor to cut, with chisels and then finishing with scrapers and shaped whetstones. The style of those grooves is also seen on the fullering of some saber blades from Eastern countries.

[Pukka Bundook]

Grendolino,

Yes indeed, the barrel you show is of the type in question.
A very nice barrel too, with all the hallmarks belonging to this type.
I do not know whether it has been shortened, as it Is shorter than we normally see, and the tang appears shortened or broken off.
Thank you for showing it! It adds even more questions to this equation!!
I note that the rear sight has been removed, and a later one fitted right at the breech. All V interesting!

Rick,

here are the other two I have seen photos of, One tarador and one Scinde fashion;
Please forgive the poor photos, they are all I could get.
Both guns doi show the 'same' barrel style although the torador has a sight at the breech whereas most have the rear sight further forward.

Sorry photos came out in random order!!

Philip,
Yes, we do see Toradors with a lump below the breech for a fastening pin. Good observation and how it ties in with the earlier European breeches!

[rickystl]

Originally Posted by grendolino

Isn't this one quite similar fluted barrel stocked in poor jezail style?

Hi Grendolino.

Thank you so much for posting this Jazail. Yes, the same family of barrels. And this one converted to percussion no less. While the use and re-use of barrels was common, this barrel may have been near 200 years old by the time it was mounted in this Jazail stock. Amazing. As Richard mentions, the barrel may have been shortened at some point. Maybe at the time it was converted.
The original rear sight removed and a simple notch rear sight mounted at the breech, which seemed to be favored on Jazail and Torador barrels.
The prolonged use of these barrels is amazing. Very interesting. And adds further to the mystery of these barrels.

Rick

[rickystl]

Richard: Thanks so much for posting these photos. Sure enough, a Sindh and Torador mounted with these barrels. First I've ever seen outside the Omani matchlocks. These barrels were more traveled in the Region than I thought.
very interesting. Thanks again.

Rick

[rickystl]

Were damascus barrels "the norm" for Ottoman shoulder weapons as a whole? I would suspect that they were actually the minority back in their working lives, since their cost made them unaffordable for the back-country hunters or the masses of rank and file troops alike. We see so many of them now because they were the ones that were saved rather than scrapped because of their outstanding appearance.

Good point Philip. I never thought about it that way. Makes sense. Thanks.

Rick

[Philip]

Here's an image of two barrels in the Museo di Artiglieria in Turin, both made for guns originally fitted with matchlocks, 16th cent. similar 3-stage format with fluted ends, faceted or round centers, and with flaring muzzles. They are of short carbine length (a pistone), the one with short tang is 17 mm and the other is 24 mm bore diameter. Published in A. Gaibi, Armi da Fuoco Italiane (Milan , 1968), pl 6 d,e.

[Pukka Bundook]

Philip,

The barrels you show are very similar to Michael Tromner's barrell (Matchlock)
His was Tusco Emilian C 1525 if I recall correctly.
Also two rifles (I believe both are rifled) once the property of Henry V111 had the same fluting, and interestingly came from the same workshop but 1540's.
I will come back with a link and photo.
BTW,
I have yet to tackle a fluted barrel! If you have details on this work, please let me know. :

Link to Michael's thread;
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ight=Matchlock

As can be seen barrels were getting longer between the 1520's and 40's.