Folding Guard or Attack Hilt Sword

[Madnumforce]

I'm not much versed into specific manufacturers, but after a brief search on Google, Coullier, successeur de Monsieur Pichon à Paris, doesn't seems to have any connection with sabers at all, only relatively classy smallswords, that's why he bothers mentioning on the blade he's the swordsmith of the count of Artois. The sabres à garde tournante are about as opposite as one can get to the type of smallsword he (and his workshop) was making.

an exemple of a Coullier smallsword on an auction website
another exemple from the Wallace Collection

I don't see how one could positively conclude that this fourbisseur created the garde tournante. I'd be rather curious to know how Mr. Comfort came to that conclusion.

[Cathey]

Hi Guys

The exact extract from Sim Comfort's book is "So where does this attack hilt come from? It appears that the original attack hilt design originated from a Parisian sword maker named Coullier in the 1780s. In 1791 a special military guard was established for the king and another special guard for the protection of the Assemblee Nationale. This type of movable guard hilt was used for the swords for these two special guards. As this particular sword bears the inscription 'LA PATRIE LA LOI LE ROI', it seems most likely that it formed part of the king's guard and, who knows, it may well have been recycled and, like Captain L'Heritier's attack hilt fighting sword, found its way to sea."

It looks like the only option remaining is to Contact Sim and ask him what he has based his view of the origin of the Attack Hilt on. I think I still have his email address somewhere from previous correspondence so I will drop him a line and let you know if he responds.

In the meantime does anyone out there have a view as to when and where these odd hilts first surfaced and who invented them?

Cheers Cathey and Rex

[Madnumforce]

Mmmhhh...... I'm quite sceptical.

It's a bit difficult to know exactly with he means as he's using vague terms for things which are very specific, but what he's talking about sounds like it could either be the Garde Constitutionnelle du Roi (personal guard of the king during the constitutional monarchy era, and obviously stopped with it), or what was successively called "Garde de l'Assemblée Nationale", then "Gendarmes Nationaux", then "Grenadier Gendarmes près la Convention" aka "Garde de la Convention", as it was at the center of the intense political turmoil of the period. The very political turmoil makes it a period quite difficult to sort things through, especially things that anecdotic. But anyway, I did my research, and I don't happen to fall on Mr. Comfort conclusion AT ALL.

First, what seems to be a fine exemple of the Garde Constitutionnelle sword... marked on both sides from the fourbisseur Coullier!!! Its authenticity leaves no doubt:
the sword

Then, an officer sword of that ever-changing parliament guard with a thousand names, and small size scans of an article in the Gazette des Armes depicting what is clearly the same type/model:
the sword
the article

Of course, none of this has nothing to do with gardes tournantes, and the very explanation Mr. Comfort gives in regard to its origins contradicts everything I read from the French collector community (also that emphasis on naval use, which makes no sense: it was just so commonplace in both the infantry and light cavarly that it could have end up anywhere, much like a briquet).


Pétard and Ariès, in a leaflet dedicated to fantaisie sabers from the second half of the 18th century (in cahier XXII from 1974), show various gardes tournantes, but the early ones are more like split branches, like those we can see on Walloons and such. But they also give the following drawings in attachment. We can clearly see the beaded branch style (garde perlée) of germanic/eastern influence, and the well formed garde tournante mechanism. It's difficult to pinpoint exactly the decade during which this style was fashionable in France, but it surely was by the 1780's, and not so much by the 1790's. The other saber is more 1790's-ish.

But there also is a variety of other petits Montomrency à garde tournante, or other infantry or cavalry sabers with a garde tournante (and I mean that specific kind garde tournante, with the leaf lock and all) that can be dated to the late years of the monarchy, i.e. late 1780's, because they're otherwise similar in every other aspect to similar sabers of the period.

I don't think we will ever figure out who invented the garde tournante, if there ever was such a person, but we can safely assume that it evolved from previous designs (like those on the Walloons), and during a brief and intense period of time, a bit before the Revolution and during it (and you can read in periods accounts that people were really smelling something huge was in the air even before anything "serious" had really started), with an amazing technological coincidence as hilt fashion turned the way it had (many parts fashioned from sheet metal), making it extremely compatible with that specific garde tournante system, it rapidly gained a very significant popularity, and also fell in about a decade as the political situation changed as well as fashion in hilt designs. Not that it's only French, of course, but it's typically French, and I really think this can't be taken out of the equation.

[Cathey]

Hi Madnumforce

Thank you for your input and at this point I think I share your scepticism. However, I am hoping that Sim has had access to some reference material that will shed light of his view and the connection with Coullier in the 1780s, so I have flicked him an email to ask what he has based this view on. He gives references at the end of each item he discusses, but these do not appear to address the connection with Coullier either.

I also find the Naval connection rather wishful, I scanned every Tournantes Guard sword reference in my copy of LHOSTE Jean, & RESEK Patrick LES SABRES PORTÉS PAR L'ARMÉE FRANÇAISE, then translated the text to English via Google and the majority of these swords appear to be Cavalry or Infantry, a small number attributed to Navy only. At times like this I wished I could read French, thank goodness for Google translations (although they can be rather strange at times). I used to steer away from Sword books not written in English, but I am over than now.

The other thing I was wondering is where the term Attack hilt came from. When you speak with English and Australian collectors this is the term they appear to favour for these folding guard swords, but I can find not definitive reference to its use.

I will let you know if I hear back from Sim on this subject.

With regard to the great illustration you have posted is there some text to go with it that you could post the describes the various figures?

Cheers Cathey

[Cathey]

Hi Guys

Sim Comfort has kindly responded to my Query and his reference for the origin of the Attack hilt is Des Sabres et Des Epees, Vol Ill, by Michel Petard, pub Canonnier, Nantes, 2005 indicating that Petard believed the original design comes Coullier. I don't have Petards book so impossible for me to cross reference back. Perhaps if someone has the book they could look it up. Sim did mention he had difficulty getting translations of the text. I have attached the scanned pages Sim has sent me.

Cheers Cathey

[Madnumforce]

Oh damn. That's really just a case of a complete absence of a translation, or complete misunderstanding. The paragraph numbered 303, mentioning Coullier, describes the sword numbered as picture 14, exactly the same kind as the one I gave a link to Mr. Malvaux antiques website in my previous post. There is absolute unmistakable certainty about it: it talks about a cock's head with feather chiseled on the grip all the way to the crossguard/crosspiece. The previous "model", which was designed for the Gardes Françaises (when it was still the "plain" monarchy), was also designed and made by Coullier... and that it was an eagle head instead of a cock.

But it seems that of the four descriptions, the 303 is the only one fitting one of these nine pictures, so it's probably a bit of a mess to spot which description matches with which picture in the book.

You can tell Mr. Comfort that next time he needs a translation from French, he can ask me. I can't let this kind of thing ever happen again.

[Cathey]

Hi Madnumforce

I agree, when I translated 303 even Google did not produce a reference to Coullier as the originator of the attack hilt. In Sims English notes on the French Swords, which he also kindly sent me he still has this reference. Sim did say that the Dutch wife of a friend did the translating so this might be where things went wrong. I might have to get a copy of Petards book myself anyway, looks like a good reference source, although I note it is Volume 3 of a set.

I may also take you up on the offer of translating from time to time, if you don't mind as I am starting to buy references in French as well as English.

I am still curios as to where the term Attack hilt came from? I think we will never really know who came up with the idea of the folding guard and to what purpose.

Cheers Cathey and Rex