Worlds Ugliest War Club

drac2k · 12th December 2017, 08:43 PM

Well, it was around noon, so maybe I was thinking "Big Mac,"..................seriously when I looked up Micmac, it appeared to be an acceptable entry as was Mi'kmaq; maybe Micmac is slang.

David · 13th December 2017, 06:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by drac2k

Well, it was around noon, so maybe I was thinking "Big Mac,"..................seriously when I looked up Micmac, it appeared to be an acceptable entry as was Mi'kmaq; maybe Micmac is slang.

Not slang Drak, simple outdated terminology. Yes you will find hits there, but that spelling hasn't been officially used in some time. Still, even when searching under "Micmac", when you open those links they usually identify the club as Penobscot.
I did find this example that doesn't seem to have any decorative carving like yours, but couldn't find much info on it beyond the image.

drac2k · 13th December 2017, 12:02 PM

I can not enlarge the picture, but the rootball does seem very similar to mine.

Kmaddock · 13th December 2017, 12:43 PM

Hi
Just an observation.
In your last picture there seems to be a hole in the centre with spiral rings around the hole, like you get when wood is being turned on a lathe.
Are these spirals growth rings of the plant or made by a cutting implement
Did native Americans use lathes?
Regards
Ken

kronckew · 13th December 2017, 01:11 PM

Does look like both ends have the centring hole and some concentric lathe-like centre marks. Wood lathes are really quite ancient, but not sure native Americans used them. (or Fijians

)

drac2k · 13th December 2017, 01:46 PM

Great eyes guys.I noticed that too.The shaft is roughly shaped with crude knife marks, not those a lathe would leave and the shaft has flat areas not consistent with turning.One of the holes at the end is approx. 5/8" deep and I think that was made to hang the item on a wall; the other hole is very shallow and it could be consistent with mounting on a lathe.
In my opinion, it could be turned, but I don't think so.
If it is turned, by a lathe, could it be a shillelagh or a WW1 trench club?The spikes on the ball struck me more as being a European attribute, rather than aboriginal?
It still could end up being a very heavy, dangerous movie prop.

David · 13th December 2017, 02:31 PM

Well, i see that hole as well, but there is no way you would get an object or a shaft shaped as irregularly as that if this were to have been turned on a lathe.
More likely someone had an attachment ring at the base of the club at some point. might not be an original feature, but added later by a collector. Hard to say.
As was suggested earlier, identifying the wood could go a long way to determining the place of origin. You might want to travel that route.

Roland_M · 13th December 2017, 03:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by drac2k

Well, it was around noon, so maybe I was thinking "Big Mac,"..................seriously when I looked up Micmac, it appeared to be an acceptable entry as was Mi'kmaq; maybe Micmac is slang.

Here are my results: https://www.google.de/search?q=Micma...w=1670&bih=902

As a former lathe machinist I can clearly say, this club was not made with a lathe.

The denotation "Micmac" is from german Wikipedia (The Mi’kmaq, also Míkmaq, Micmac or Mic-Mac (https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mi%E2%80%99kmaq)).

Roland

David · 13th December 2017, 04:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roland_M

Here are my results: https://www.google.de/search?q=Micma...w=1670&bih=902

As a former lathe machinist I can clearly say, this club was not made with a lathe.

The denotation "Micmac" is from german Wikipedia (The Mi’kmaq, also Míkmaq, Micmac or Mic-Mac (https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mi%E2%80%99kmaq)).

Roland

Roland, there is no argument that the name "Micmac" was indeed used at one time and will indeed generate hits on google. My point is that it is no longer considered an appropriate spelling and is not how the people themselves spell their name. I don't know if your German Wikipedia entry talks about this, but the following is from the English language version:
Until the 1980s, "Micmac" remained the most common spelling in English. Although still used, for example in Ethnologue, this spelling has fallen out of favour in recent years. Most scholarly publications now use the spelling Mi'kmaq, as preferred by the people. The media has adopted this spelling practice, acknowledging that the Mi'kmaq consider the spelling Micmac as "colonially tainted". The Mi'kmaq prefer to use one of the three current Mi'kmaq orthographies when writing the language.
I prefer and encourage the use of the name that is preferred by the people themselves rather than one they consider to be "colonially tainted".

13th December 2017, 12:43 PM	#4
Kmaddock Member Join Date: May 2014 Location: Ireland Posts: 543	Hi Just an observation. In your last picture there seems to be a hole in the centre with spiral rings around the hole, like you get when wood is being turned on a lathe. Are these spirals growth rings of the plant or made by a cutting implement Did native Americans use lathes? Regards Ken Last edited by Kmaddock; 13th December 2017 at 01:05 PM.

13th December 2017, 01:46 PM	#6
drac2k Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Posts: 1,274	Great eyes guys.I noticed that too.The shaft is roughly shaped with crude knife marks, not those a lathe would leave and the shaft has flat areas not consistent with turning.One of the holes at the end is approx. 5/8" deep and I think that was made to hang the item on a wall; the other hole is very shallow and it could be consistent with mounting on a lathe. In my opinion, it could be turned, but I don't think so. If it is turned, by a lathe, could it be a shillelagh or a WW1 trench club?The spikes on the ball struck me more as being a European attribute, rather than aboriginal? It still could end up being a very heavy, dangerous movie prop. Last edited by drac2k; 13th December 2017 at 01:59 PM.

12th December 2017, 08:43 PM	#1
drac2k Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Posts: 1,274	Well, it was around noon, so maybe I was thinking "Big Mac,"..................seriously when I looked up Micmac, it appeared to be an acceptable entry as was Mi'kmaq; maybe Micmac is slang.

13th December 2017, 12:02 PM	#3
drac2k Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Posts: 1,274	I can not enlarge the picture, but the rootball does seem very similar to mine.

13th December 2017, 01:11 PM	#5
kronckew Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Room 101, Glos. UK Posts: 4,241	Does look like both ends have the centring hole and some concentric lathe-like centre marks. Wood lathes are really quite ancient, but not sure native Americans used them. (or Fijians )

13th December 2017, 02:31 PM	#7
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,231	Well, i see that hole as well, but there is no way you would get an object or a shaft shaped as irregularly as that if this were to have been turned on a lathe. More likely someone had an attachment ring at the base of the club at some point. might not be an original feature, but added later by a collector. Hard to say. As was suggested earlier, identifying the wood could go a long way to determining the place of origin. You might want to travel that route.