Keris - for Tourists?

Henk · 18th January 2005, 05:47 PM

Herzlich wilkommen, Klaus.

Nechesh is right. The blade is probably javanese. Not uncommon for this type of keris. Also balinese blades were used for these keris.
The dress is refered to as Borneo and probably the new ones for the tourists will come from Borneo, but this dresstype is also used for mandaus. This dress is typical for Irian Jiya, former Dutch West New Guinea.

The authentic keris and mandau from that area had the same dress and painting style. Only paint made from natural materials was used and the result was not so bright and shiny as this one. The blades were imported from Indonesia so therefore you can see them with balinese or javanese blades. And of course the blades weren't treated at all. Thats why these keris are always so terrible rusty.

What you have here Klaus is a new keris from Irian Jiya, made for export or if you like for tourists but made in the traditional way.

Naga Sasra · 18th January 2005, 08:48 PM

Hi fellow forum members,
I have attached photos of a piece in my collection which I know arrived in Scandinavia in the early 20th century, while it does fit the description from Henk as being authentic mandau, I have over the years been looking for any evidence (drawings or photos) of this keris actually being used, perhaps one of the members have the proof I seek.

Frankly, I have considered this piece to be an early tourist keris, but then again in the early 20th century, I for one would not like to be a tourist in Irian Jiya.

Naga Basuki · 18th January 2005, 10:54 PM

I got one of these also, more like the first keris than Eric's. I thought that it was a made-for-tourist joke, but I showed it to a guy who knows keris and he said that he thought mine was a legitimate keris that had been "customized" by a Batak or Dyak. The colors on my paint are a bit more faded, but it does have the boar's teeth and hair.

My wife loves it and has it hanging in the kitchen.

Rick · 19th January 2005, 12:21 AM

Do you think that the wrongko has been re-carved ?

Naga Sasra · 19th January 2005, 04:44 AM

Hi Rick,
I do not believe the wrongko has been re-carved, everything on the piece is consistant with the arrival date to Scandinavia.

I have not re-touched it in any way, all I did when I got it back in the sixties was to clean the blade (which was rather rusty) and preserve it, everything else I left alone.

The gandar have old repairs, it was broken in two places in the middle and a part of the top is missing, but I do think it is original despite the early repairs.

Best Regards, Naga Sasra

Rick · 20th January 2005, 08:35 PM

I noticed that the wrongko of Klaus' example appears to be re-carved .
I wonder what esteem the Dyaks held for these keris , symbolic , or just a dagger ?

Henk · 20th January 2005, 09:05 PM

Naga Sasra,

This is more what I mean. The colors of your keris are not so shiny and the crochet ornaments are typical too for this keris.
This type of keris is present in the national museum of ethnology in Leiden, Holland. The paint however is much more faded. If this one arrived in the early 20th century in Scandinavia it is very well preserved and certainly not a tourist item. Also the keris itself looks to be in a good condition.

Naga Basuki, I would like to see some pictures of your keris. Please post them, so that we can have a look.

Rick, these kerisses don't come from the dayak but from the papoea of Irian Jaya. I think that they considered the blade as just a dagger. How these tribes thought about these items, I must admit that I don't know. But they were very primitive, so I think they didn't apreciate keris the way keris should be apreciated. On the other hand they were also familiar with the mandau so there could be some trade with the dayak. But it is more likely that some papoea's lost their head during these meetings.

Rick · 20th January 2005, 09:50 PM

Thanks Henk .
I wonder if these old indonesian keris may have been used in trading with the Papoea .

18th January 2005, 08:48 PM	#2
Naga Sasra Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Boca Raton, Florida, USA Posts: 108	Hi fellow forum members, I have attached photos of a piece in my collection which I know arrived in Scandinavia in the early 20th century, while it does fit the description from Henk as being authentic mandau, I have over the years been looking for any evidence (drawings or photos) of this keris actually being used, perhaps one of the members have the proof I seek. Frankly, I have considered this piece to be an early tourist keris, but then again in the early 20th century, I for one would not like to be a tourist in Irian Jiya. Attached Images

19th January 2005, 12:21 AM	#4
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,336	Naga Sasra Do you think that the wrongko has been re-carved ?

18th January 2005, 05:47 PM	#1
Henk Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 1,209	Herzlich wilkommen, Klaus. Nechesh is right. The blade is probably javanese. Not uncommon for this type of keris. Also balinese blades were used for these keris. The dress is refered to as Borneo and probably the new ones for the tourists will come from Borneo, but this dresstype is also used for mandaus. This dress is typical for Irian Jiya, former Dutch West New Guinea. The authentic keris and mandau from that area had the same dress and painting style. Only paint made from natural materials was used and the result was not so bright and shiny as this one. The blades were imported from Indonesia so therefore you can see them with balinese or javanese blades. And of course the blades weren't treated at all. Thats why these keris are always so terrible rusty. What you have here Klaus is a new keris from Irian Jiya, made for export or if you like for tourists but made in the traditional way.

18th January 2005, 10:54 PM	#3
Naga Basuki Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Big old machine shop/foundry/warehouse in Atlanta GA USA Posts: 51	I got one of these also, more like the first keris than Eric's. I thought that it was a made-for-tourist joke, but I showed it to a guy who knows keris and he said that he thought mine was a legitimate keris that had been "customized" by a Batak or Dyak. The colors on my paint are a bit more faded, but it does have the boar's teeth and hair. My wife loves it and has it hanging in the kitchen.

19th January 2005, 04:44 AM	#5
Naga Sasra Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Boca Raton, Florida, USA Posts: 108	Hi Rick, I do not believe the wrongko has been re-carved, everything on the piece is consistant with the arrival date to Scandinavia. I have not re-touched it in any way, all I did when I got it back in the sixties was to clean the blade (which was rather rusty) and preserve it, everything else I left alone. The gandar have old repairs, it was broken in two places in the middle and a part of the top is missing, but I do think it is original despite the early repairs. Best Regards, Naga Sasra

20th January 2005, 08:35 PM	#6
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,336	I noticed that the wrongko of Klaus' example appears to be re-carved . I wonder what esteem the Dyaks held for these keris , symbolic , or just a dagger ?

20th January 2005, 09:05 PM	#7
Henk Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 1,209	Naga Sasra, This is more what I mean. The colors of your keris are not so shiny and the crochet ornaments are typical too for this keris. This type of keris is present in the national museum of ethnology in Leiden, Holland. The paint however is much more faded. If this one arrived in the early 20th century in Scandinavia it is very well preserved and certainly not a tourist item. Also the keris itself looks to be in a good condition. Naga Basuki, I would like to see some pictures of your keris. Please post them, so that we can have a look. Rick, these kerisses don't come from the dayak but from the papoea of Irian Jaya. I think that they considered the blade as just a dagger. How these tribes thought about these items, I must admit that I don't know. But they were very primitive, so I think they didn't apreciate keris the way keris should be apreciated. On the other hand they were also familiar with the mandau so there could be some trade with the dayak. But it is more likely that some papoea's lost their head during these meetings.

20th January 2005, 09:50 PM	#8
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,336	Thanks Henk . I wonder if these old indonesian keris may have been used in trading with the Papoea .