Omani Matchlock Barrel - Abu Fathilah

[rickystl]

Originally Posted by Pukka Bundook

Rick,

These barrels have the same constriction of the bore well up from the breech. as far up as maybe 5-6"
How and what they loaded with I have no clue. When I checked mine, although small bore of .50 or less, they still wanted to hold a couple of hundred brains of powder to fill this chamber!

Try a long wire down the bore, as it may be just the constriction you are hitting.

Stu,

LOL!

Hi Richard.

Well, I was partially mistaken. After further investigation here is what I've found so far: Running a wire in the vent hole, there is evidence of powder in the breech. From the muzzle end, there is some type of semi-soft cloth or other fabric about 3" from the breech. Twisting, my patch puller will get a hold on it, but it doesn't want to budge. Hmmmm. If there is a ball/projectile it would half to be behind this cloth/wad/material. I'll try a bit more with the patch puller. Next, I think I will try some boiling hot water or penetrating oil to see if it will soften the material.
So far, I have not noticed a conctriction like on some Torador barrels. But you may be right. Just need to get that piece of material out.

Rick

[Pukka Bundook]

I'm holding my breath, Rick!

[rickystl]

Originally Posted by Pukka Bundook

I'm holding my breath, Rick!

Hi Richard.

The bore is now clear. Used boiling water. Whatever was down there seems to have melted LOL I also used a smaller diameter rod than I was originally using, and discovered it would go all the way to the breech end. What came out of the bore with a dry patch was the usual black/rust - but also some ugly looking grey colored substance. LOL The bore at the muzzle is about .55 caliber. I've been cleaning using a .50 caliber bronze bore brush. However, a too loose .45 caliber brush is a perfect snug fit the last 4 inches at the breech end. So you are correct. The boree has a constriction, and tapers smaller the last 4" or so from the breech end. That was adding to my confusion. LOL
Anyway, thanks for the tip. Just needs a bunch more cleaning now.

Rick

[Richard G]

I would have said this barrel is set up in a modern version of the traditional Scinde stock. I have seen a number of these Scinde 'jezails' with this type of barrel. My suspicion is that these barrels, as you say, closely associated with Omani matchlocks, actually originate in Scinde.
Regards
Richard

[rickystl]

Originally Posted by Richard G

I would have said this barrel is set up in a modern version of the traditional Scinde stock. I have seen a number of these Scinde 'jezails' with this type of barrel. My suspicion is that these barrels, as you say, closely associated with Omani matchlocks, actually originate in Scinde.
Regards
Richard

Hi Richard.

Thanks for your reply. Yes, the stock shape of this gun more reflects the stocks made for the Sindh guns. See below. My guess is that this was the stock style used as a pattern by the late builder.
I seem to recall our beloved, Matchlock had posted a gun on the European Forum from the late 15th to early 16th Century that had the barrel near the muzzle end fluted similar to the Omani barrels. This might mean some type of very early European influence (?) It's just curious the only surviving specimens with this style of barrel are on Omani matchlocks.

Rick

[Philip]

Originally Posted by rickystl

Hi Richard.


I seem to recall our beloved, Matchlock had posted a gun on the European Forum from the late 15th to early 16th Century that had the barrel near the muzzle end fluted similar to the Omani barrels. This might mean some type of very early European influence (?) It's just curious the only surviving specimens with this style of barrel are on Omani matchlocks.

Rick

Not surprising that this bit of Germanic influence should persist in this remote corner of the Ottoman Empire, considering the flow of goods and concepts via war and trade to the east and south from the Habsburg domains down through the Balkans to Turkey, then southward through the Levant and the Arabian Peninsula from the 15th cent. onward.

Ever notice the similarity between the barrels of German "jaeger" style rifles of the 17th-18th cent., and the barrels of many Ottoman shoulder weapons of the same period? Short- to medium lengths (compared to Arab and north African), octagonal cross-sections, swamped muzzles, and rifled bores of fairly large diameter with an odd number of round-bottom grooves in a rather slow twist? I think that this is more than just coincidence.

[Pukka Bundook]

Richard G,

I too have seen these barrels obviously stocked up in Scinde fashion, and wondered about their originating there. Very interesting !
I do not recall seeing more than one stocked in toradar fashion, and came to the "conclusion" that likely these were indeed Persian barrels traded up into Scinde as well as Oman. This however may be all wrong, and maybe Scinde Did produce these barrels. There appears very few examples for us to work off.

Philip & Rick,

As these barrels appear to all have Persian (?) stampings at the breech, I think wherever they were made they are copies of European barrels made in a Very similar manner and are very old.. As they have usually un-drilled tangs, I see this as being copied from European tangs, but in this case mounted in a different manner and the tang not used as support or fastening.
Henry V111's barrels on his breech-loaders are Northern Italian products, and are Very similar in the fluting of the barrels to these mystery pieces.

All very interesting!
Richard.

[rickystl]

Originally Posted by Philip

Not surprising that this bit of Germanic influence should persist in this remote corner of the Ottoman Empire, considering the flow of goods and concepts via war and trade to the east and south from the Habsburg domains down through the Balkans to Turkey, then southward through the Levant and the Arabian Peninsula from the 15th cent. onward.

Ever notice the similarity between the barrels of German "jaeger" style rifles of the 17th-18th cent., and the barrels of many Ottoman shoulder weapons of the same period? Short- to medium lengths (compared to Arab and north African), octagonal cross-sections, swamped muzzles, and rifled bores of fairly large diameter with an odd number of round-bottom grooves in a rather slow twist? I think that this is more than just coincidence.

Hi Philip.
Thanks for your respose. Yes, the flutes would seem to have a German/European origin if you go back far enough in time. It seems that most everything gun related in the Eastern markets can be traced to a European design one way or the other.

Barrels on Ottoman shoulder guns: Now that you mention it, yes, the similarities in barrel design do mimic the early jaegar barrels. Good observation. The only difference in the Ottoman barrels being the more frequent use of damascus, which would be the norm.

Rick