Bali Keris for Comment.

[A. G. Maisey]

Re spelling.

I'm not inclined to dispute the transliteration from an old Bali script into Roman script, nor from a word that has been heard by a non-native speaker and then given in Roman script. Both Javanese and Balinese people, especially in non-academic or non-professional circles , are very inclined to play around with both vowels and consonants, the sound is important, not the physical rendition of the sound.

However, Shadeg gives us "cenang" as the "traditional hand-part of the hilt of a keris", also as "a kind of beaker".

"Cenang" is a noun, however, if we use the word as an adjective, as in a description of a type of hilt, it gains the "an", thus, it would be "danganan cenangan" :- the word "cenang" is describing the hilt "danganan". A bit like "gayam", and "gayaman":- use the word by itself and point to the wrongko, it is common to use just "gayam", use the word "gayam" + "wrongko" it is "wrongko gayaman". Actually, a "gayam" is a kind of tree and you can eat the nuts, which have a shape a bit like a gayaman wrongko, so a gayaman wrongko looks like a gayam tree nut.

If we add the prefix "ce" to a Balinese word, what we are doing is making the root into an intransitive verb that indicates that you must make the sound of the second syllable. It is playing with onomatopoeia.

Thus, this indicates to me that the word "cecanginan" was what a non-native speaker heard and wrote down:- "what's that called?" > "oh yah Pak, itulah namanya "cecanginan" --- and given nasally.


David, those pics you have posted are examples of old and new renditions of the same hilt style.

Once you get these little bumps you have the hilt style, the differences in spelling, or in pronunciation, do not indicate differences or shades of difference in the hilt style, its still the same hilt style, the only difference is in the way the informant gave the information.


I'll translate later if you wish, need to leave the house now.

I think from memory that Suteja Neka uses cenangan.

[David]

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

David, those pics you have posted are examples of old and new renditions of the same hilt style.

Once you get these little bumps you have the hilt style, the differences in spelling, or in pronunciation, do not indicate differences or shades of difference in the hilt style, its still the same hilt style, the only difference is in the way the informant gave the information.

Thanks Alan. I am completely aware of that. Leif asked for examples of similar hilts so i obliged.
As i stated before, i am sure you are correct about the spelling and i would also agree that you are correct about how this misspelling has slipped into the lexicon. But that's the thing about language. A certain spelling takes hold amongst a certain group of people and though technically incorrect it becomes known by that spelling. When i went searching for images on the internet i tried both spellings and the one that yielded the best results for the images i was seeking was the misspelling. That doesn't make that spelling correct, but it obviously has reached a certain level of acceptance.

[A. G. Maisey]

Yep, language changes, spellings change, even meanings change, but the problem with "cecanginan" is that it is not really misspelt, it can be a legit word, but it is a bit difficult to use it as a name.

Still, if enough people think they are using the correct word, belief can generate a life of its own.

Even if Balinese people think different.

I think there was a rather long and convoluted thread along these lines in another place, where it was more or less agreed that it didn't really matter at all what the people who owned the culture, cultural object and language thought was correct, what was important was what collectors thought was correct.