Wootz Shamshir

[Oliver Pinchot]

Well-observed, Jim and Ibrahiim. It is a handsome blade, congrats Bryce.

In this case, the likeliest explanation is that a blade dating from the late 17th-early 18th century was embellished with the cartouches containing the name and titles of Shah Abbas and the shir ve khorshid or Persian Lion and Sun during the late 18th or early 19th century. This would have been done to increase the value of the blade (and prestige of the owner.)

Period writers, notably British diplomat Sir William Ouseley, mention the considerable increase in value the Assad Allah signature could confer in Qajar-era Persia. See footnote 43 in the paper Ibrahiim kindly linked for the complete citation.

[kronckew]

So that's what the triple fullers on mine are for . swishing!

[Bryce]

G'day Guys,

The spine of the blade at the hilt is about 7mm wide and appears to have a forging flaw that has been filled with another metal. From what I have read on other posts, this seems common with these blades. If the smith was skilled enough to ensure there were no flaws in the face of the blade, why did they leave open forge lines on the spine? Was it because it doesn't effect the structural integrity of the blade, so wasn't considered a problem?

Cheers,
Bryce

[Bryce]

Sorry Guys,
I just had another thought regarding the open forging line on the blade spine. The smith obviously wasn't happy with it and that is why he filled it in. If most/all? nicely patterned shamshirs of this period have this feature, then the only reasonable explanation is that it is an unavoidable result of the low temperature forging technique used to make blades with this wootz pattern?

Can anyone answer this for me?

Cheers,
Bryce

[Bryce]

G'day Guys,

I am still trying to decipher the lion pictogram. I understand that the "face-like" object over the lion's back most likely represents the sun, but does it also contain a stylized and partially inverted rendering of "Assad allah"?

Cheers,
Bryce

[ariel]

The cleanest wootz was at the bottom part of the ingot, the dirtiest with a lot of slag- at the top. The smith partially cut and bent the ingot to use the clean part for the edge and the sides, with the lower quality part of it forming the inner core of the blade. The long “crack” on the spine is the seam of that bending. It is usually filled with brass or silver wire. It is not a forging flaw, it is a hallmark of a wootz blade.

[Bryce]

G'day Ariel,

Thank you for answering this for me. Where did you learn this?

Cheers,

Bryce

[Roland_M]

Originally Posted by Bryce

G'day Ariel,

Thank you for answering this for me. Where did you learn this?

Cheers,

Bryce

Hello Bryce,

I have exactly the same question as you, where did Ariel learned this?

Because there is imho a temperature problem. Wootz is forged at low temperatures of 750-850°C (I forgot the exact value) but fire welding requires a temperature of ~1100°C. At this temperature the pattern would get lost. So I'm quite confused about the fire welding theory. I hope, Ariel can solve this problem.


Roland

[Jim McDougall]

Originally Posted by ariel

The cleanest wootz was at the bottom part of the ingot, the dirtiest with a lot of slag- at the top. The smith partially cut and bent the ingot to use the clean part for the edge and the sides, with the lower quality part of it forming the inner core of the blade. The long “crack” on the spine is the seam of that bending. It is usually filled with brass or silver wire. It is not a forging flaw, it is a hallmark of a wootz blade.

Thank you for this excellent explanation Ariel!
For metallurgy Neanderthals like me its great to have this kind of insight given that I can really grasp.