Keris Selit

rasdan · 15th November 2017, 07:14 PM

Hello everybody,

IMHO it is probably a personal preference - at least during the turn of the century. [[The process described by Jean using salt, sulphur and rice water is used to etch the blade, not stain; but if I'm not mistaken if we drop the salt it will stain. ]] <Edit: The bold part is wrong. Pls refer to post #30 for correction.

To my knowledge the word warangan was already used in Hikayat Abdullah written in early 19th century.

Below is a quote from Winstedt's Malayan Memories 1916. It is part of a dialogue of a Malay keris dealer with Winstedt:

"" So," he said, picking up bundle and cane, " so, I may
leave this dagger with the tuan. And the tuan has got me
that pink arsenic which keeps a blade bright : I want it for
my creese with the damask marks which the knowing call
' the grass-hopper's legs.' "

We can read it here:

https://archive.org/details/cu31924021572106

I think I had read some other reference about Malays staining their keris using warangan in another text that I had forgotten about.

Also, the keris on the cover of this book appears to be stained.

A. G. Maisey · 16th November 2017, 12:01 AM

Thanks for that Gustav, I do have the Newbold book, I may well have read the sulphur + salt in that and forgotten the mention of warangan, or my source might have been different.

What I am positive of is that salt + sulphur + rice water, applied to a blade and wrapped in plastic for a week or so will stain a blade. I did several blades in this way +50 years ago, before I knew how to use arsenic. I did not wash off with coconut water, I washed off with pineapple juice.

I think I've still got one of the blades that I did like this, and I intend to sell it at some time in the future, ie, not now, not immediate future, but in some future transaction in the indefinite future, so I'm not infringing either Forum policy, or my own policies if I post a pic. I'll see if I can find the keris I have in mind.

rasdan · 16th November 2017, 06:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

What I am positive of is that salt + sulphur + rice water, applied to a blade and wrapped in plastic for a week or so will stain a blade. I did several blades in this way +50 years ago, before I knew how to use arsenic. I did not wash off with coconut water, I washed off with pineapple juice.

Reading Alan's post made me realize I have made a mistake in my post above about the sulphur method. I got confused with an etching method I used to use. I will edit the previous post.

I have tried sulphur + salt + vinegar on keris blades before. This mix etches. I haven't tried sulphur + salt + rice water method. Since this method uses rice water instead of vinegar I think it wont etch or wont etch as strong and as Alan have said, will stain. So what I've written about just sulphur + rice water is wrong. Sorry I got things mixed up.

G'day Alan,

Regarding the outcome of the rice water method, does the iron get stained as dark as warangan with the technique?

A. G. Maisey · 16th November 2017, 11:22 AM

No Rasdan.

I'm going to post a pic of a blade I did about 55 years ago as soon as I can find it, you can judge for yourself.

Green · 16th November 2017, 03:52 PM

Not to belabour the point, but I need a little clarification about the 'warangan culture' for the malay area.

I believe the warangan process is done on javanese blades periodically whenever the blade is cleaned. But this is not so in the case of Malay blades... i.e it may be stained using sulphur etc during the initial making process, but subsequently cleaning is only done using lime juice etc without further staining using warangan.

Is my understanding correct? If this is so, this essentially mean that 'warangan' is not a part of malay keris culture as I understand it. Hence any blades that show obvious warangan is most likely not a malay blade. Hence my original point.

David · 16th November 2017, 05:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Green

Not to belabour the point, but I need a little clarification about the 'warangan culture' for the malay area.

I believe the warangan process is done on javanese blades periodically whenever the blade is cleaned. But this is not so in the case of Malay blades... i.e it may be stained using sulphur etc during the initial making process, but subsequently cleaning is only done using lime juice etc without further staining using warangan.

Is my understanding correct? If this is so, this essentially mean that 'warangan' is not a part of malay keris culture as I understand it. Hence any blades that show obvious warangan is most likely not a malay blade. Hence my original point.

Well if you will forgive me for belabouring the point, in post #20 Gustav has give a quote from an academic journal for 1839 that clearly establishes that warangan was considered a part of the process by at least some Malay keris owners at that time.
Then Rasdan, in post # 28 gives a quote for a conversation with a Malay keris dealer in a book from 1916 where he clearly describes the use of arsenic to raise pamor pattern.
Did you not read these posts or do you simply choose not to believe them? They seem to more than imply that at least in some areas of the Malayan world at those times warangan was known, accessible and used. I do tend to agree that at this current time this is not seen as a common process in that Malay keris culture. But obviously it once was.
I will also say again that it is also not possible to identify the origin of a blade based solely upon whether or not that blade has been stained. It is quite possible that even in our current era where it is not in fashion to stain Malay keris, a new owner of said keris, possibly one who lives outside that culture, might choose to stain that blade out of their own personal preference. That doesn't then change the origin of the blade. It would still be a Malay blade that has been stained, no?

Rafngard · 20th November 2017, 12:44 AM

Hello All,

I'm late to the party, but here' my one Keris Selit. Like many, the hilt is Jawa Demam. The blade is sepokal. The Sampir is sadly missing, but the gandar is remarkably chatoyant. I'm pretty sure the buntut is silver.

The blade is sadly held in the hilt with an adhesive, and I've been hesitant to try the candle method to remove it, given the stress crack on the hilt. Someday soon I'll bite the bullet and take care of that inactive rust.

Anyway, Enjoy!

Thanks,
Leif

15th November 2017, 07:14 PM	#1
rasdan Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Kuala Lumpur Posts: 369	Hello everybody, IMHO it is probably a personal preference - at least during the turn of the century. [[The process described by Jean using salt, sulphur and rice water is used to etch the blade, not stain; but if I'm not mistaken if we drop the salt it will stain. ]] <Edit: The bold part is wrong. Pls refer to post #30 for correction. To my knowledge the word warangan was already used in Hikayat Abdullah written in early 19th century. Below is a quote from Winstedt's Malayan Memories 1916. It is part of a dialogue of a Malay keris dealer with Winstedt: "" So," he said, picking up bundle and cane, " so, I may leave this dagger with the tuan. And the tuan has got me that pink arsenic which keeps a blade bright : I want it for my creese with the damask marks which the knowing call ' the grass-hopper's legs.' " We can read it here: https://archive.org/details/cu31924021572106 I think I had read some other reference about Malays staining their keris using warangan in another text that I had forgotten about. Also, the keris on the cover of this book appears to be stained. Attached Images Last edited by rasdan; 16th November 2017 at 06:55 AM.

20th November 2017, 12:44 AM	#7
Rafngard Member Join Date: Jun 2015 Location: Minneapolis,MN Posts: 367	Hello All, I'm late to the party, but here' my one Keris Selit. Like many, the hilt is Jawa Demam. The blade is sepokal. The Sampir is sadly missing, but the gandar is remarkably chatoyant. I'm pretty sure the buntut is silver. The blade is sadly held in the hilt with an adhesive, and I've been hesitant to try the candle method to remove it, given the stress crack on the hilt. Someday soon I'll bite the bullet and take care of that inactive rust. Anyway, Enjoy! Thanks, Leif Attached Images

16th November 2017, 12:01 AM	#2
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,134	Thanks for that Gustav, I do have the Newbold book, I may well have read the sulphur + salt in that and forgotten the mention of warangan, or my source might have been different. What I am positive of is that salt + sulphur + rice water, applied to a blade and wrapped in plastic for a week or so will stain a blade. I did several blades in this way +50 years ago, before I knew how to use arsenic. I did not wash off with coconut water, I washed off with pineapple juice. I think I've still got one of the blades that I did like this, and I intend to sell it at some time in the future, ie, not now, not immediate future, but in some future transaction in the indefinite future, so I'm not infringing either Forum policy, or my own policies if I post a pic. I'll see if I can find the keris I have in mind.

16th November 2017, 11:22 AM	#4
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,134	No Rasdan. I'm going to post a pic of a blade I did about 55 years ago as soon as I can find it, you can judge for yourself.

16th November 2017, 03:52 PM	#5
Green Member Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: Malaysia Posts: 327	Not to belabour the point, but I need a little clarification about the 'warangan culture' for the malay area. I believe the warangan process is done on javanese blades periodically whenever the blade is cleaned. But this is not so in the case of Malay blades... i.e it may be stained using sulphur etc during the initial making process, but subsequently cleaning is only done using lime juice etc without further staining using warangan. Is my understanding correct? If this is so, this essentially mean that 'warangan' is not a part of malay keris culture as I understand it. Hence any blades that show obvious warangan is most likely not a malay blade. Hence my original point.