Very strange sword

[thinreadline]

Originally Posted by Kubur

Hi,

I don't know where to put this sword in Ethno or European...
What is this and from where?

That is the oddest sword I have seen in 50 years of collecting ! It is hard to even conceive a technique by which it would be used .... I wonder if Matt Easton of Schola Gladiatoria has encountered such a weapon ?

[Robert]

You can find some information here on this rather strange sword: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ght=sock+sword
I hope that this will be of some help.

Best,
Robert

[thinreadline]

Very interesting article ... I cannot go with the idea that it was used by the Spanish for hamstringing French horses ..... why go to all that trouble to design something so elaborate and requiring so much skill and daring to use ( with probably little hope of success ) when you can blast a cavalry charge with grape shot or canister from a safe distance ?
To me this looks more like a fashion statement sword ... an extreme expression of the taste for mameluke swords following Napoleon's invasion of Egypt , worn by the military equivalent of a Macoroni .

[Helleri]

I like it. That sudden jag could dome someone efficiently with a mace like blow. And the way it changes the angle of the business part of the blade in downward draw cutting looks to be more ideal for an effective cut. Seems like one could even bring the point to bear and turn it out of a piercing without as much danger of it wrenching one's arm. Yeah it's odd looking. But it looks like it would be very effective in use from horse back on lower targets.

The only problem is if one gets taken off their horse and is forced to fight with it on foot. then I could see some issues. Potential lack of reach advantage. the angle of the cutting edge no longer being ideal when at level with an opponent. Inability to thrust effectively from on foot.

Likely why we don't see nothing but these from it's inception onward. Because it's a little too specialized for the real dynamics of the battlefield. Still a very interesting sword.

[Jim McDougall]

Originally Posted by thinreadline

Very interesting article ... I cannot go with the idea that it was used by the Spanish for hamstringing French horses ..... why go to all that trouble to design something so elaborate and requiring so much skill and daring to use ( with probably little hope of success ) when you can blast a cavalry charge with grape shot or canister from a safe distance ?
To me this looks more like a fashion statement sword ... an extreme expression of the taste for mameluke swords following Napoleon's invasion of Egypt , worn by the military equivalent of a Macoroni .

I very much agree with this. As the link posted shows, one of these in more austere character, was discussed some years ago. These cannot have been a widely known form, and actually I do not believe they were weapons at all (not saying they might not have been called on for same, just as many implements and tools were).
It is my impression these were perhaps for foraging of fodder for horses.
The notion of characterizing this item as a sword was quite likely a sort of tongue in cheek gimmick perhaps, but could have well served as a kind of scythe to gather fodder.

Ideas like 'for hamstringing of horses' falls into the category of camp folklore much like the later idea of sawtooth bayonets intended to cause hideous wounding (they were saws for utility use).

Interesting to see one of these in what appears officers level dress, as it would seem these would have been for duties delegated to support forces rank and file.

[Robert]

Though not officers quality, here is a photo of todays version of this piece. Photo compliments of local hardware store add.

Best,
Robert

[Kubur]

Most of the time collectors compare only widely known forms.
To progress and to improve our knowledge we have to accept things that we don't know, including new shapes and new swords.
Trying to understand and to explain the function and meaning of this sword will be really useful.
To me it's a sword and not a tool (what a luxuous scabbard for a tool)...

[Roland_M]

Originally Posted by Kubur

Most of the time collectors compare only widely known forms.
To progress and to improve our knowledge we have to accept things that we don't know, including new shapes and new swords.
Trying to understand and to explain the function and meaning of this sword will be really useful.
To me it's a sword and not a tool (what a luxuous scabbard for a tool)...

As a real sword, it must be awful in combat. It is extremely front-heavy, which is a major disadvantage in combat, makes the sword slow and uncomfortable to swing. It needs a lot of power for correct movements from one ward to another (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ward_(fencing)). I think it is a parade-sword or something with a religious background.

Roland

[David]

I have to agree with Kubur. This seems to be more than a tool to me. And not only is it a fancy scabbard for a tool, it has two rings to enable it to be carried as a sword as do the scabbards of other examples of this same weapon that we have seen. Obviously it has some specialized purpose given it's bizarre shape, but this wouldn't be the first odd sword form we have discussed on this forum, would it? I'm not convinced that this sword was meant for hamstringing horses. It seems a two-handed sword would be more useful for that task. But we have seen enough of these swords to know they are not simply a fanciful aberration. I agree that trying to understand it's purpose will be much more useful to this forum than simply writing off what we don't yet fully understand as simply being a tool.