The EARLY MAKERS TRADE MARKS thread... lost and partly restored.

[fernando]

Old 4th November 2007, 11:09 PM

Posted by:
Jeff D

Member
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: B.C. Canada
Posts: 491

Hi Jim,

Here is Pg. 109 of Wagner's Cut and Thrust Weapons .

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[fernando]

Old 4th November 2007, 11:18 PM

Posted by:
Jeff D

Member
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: B.C. Canada
Posts: 491

Here is Pg 223 of Oakeshott's Archaeology of Weapons !st edition.


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[fernando]

Old 4th November 2007, 11:25 P

Posted by:
Jeff D

Member
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: B.C. Canada
Posts: 491

How about going back to the ULFBERHT and INGERI swords, or the eastern European/ Caucasian FRINGA blades. Not to mention Assadollah!

You may have opened a can of worms with this thread

All the Best
Jeff

[fernando]

Old 5th November 2007, 12:02 AM

Posted by;
Jim McDougall

EAA Research Consultant
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Route 66
Posts: 5,748


Yay Jeff!!!
Ya always come in like the cavalry!!!!! Those are exactly the images I was looking for, thank you so much!
I agree on the ulfberht and ingeri (they always reminded me of Engleberdt Humperdinck ).....but excellent very early trademarks. I recall the articles from Park Lane Arms Fair journals as well as the material Lee Jones has compiled on these.

Thank you again Fernando for the Passau wolf and again adding the Portuguese associations.....I do indeed have that book but unfortunately not at hand right now.....wish it was believe me!
Please do add material on the '7' ......the numerological material involved in many of the markings is very pertinant. The number three of course comes up often with the religious associations. I know that on many trade blades, some of the 'Zanzibar' nimchas for example, three crosses often appear on the blades.

[fernando]

Old 5th November 2007, 01:13 AM

Posted by;
Michael Blalock

Member
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: dc
Posts: 253

Here is a cloud with a sword. One is from an English cavalry sword, the other, a Yemeni sword and the coat of arms is for the town of Valka, Latvia. A very small town in Latvia from where my wife's family fled during WWII. This part of Lativa was a German principality for most of the the middle ages.

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[fernando]

Old 5th November 2007, 02:33 AM

Posted by;
Jim McDougall

EAA Research Consultant
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Route 66
Posts: 5,748

Beautiful examples Michael! and most intriguing history with the coat of arms shown. It seems I have seen similar arms in Polish heraldry, and that the arm coming from the cloud device was most likely adopted by Solingen makers in the 17th to 18th centuries as can be seen in the talismanic context.

I have seen this marking in books on this topic such as 1000 Makers Marks (Lenciewicz ?) and another whose title escapes me (Jeff I think you have these). I apologize for not having better recollection on these, I do not have access to books presently so must rely on what there is of my memory!!

It is interesting to see the religious allegory associated with these talismanic devices in motif, in this case the arm holding a sabre represents the arm of God and the sword extending from Heaven. We did have some discussion on the appearance of the Virgin Mary on Polish swords along with astral symbols not too long ago, and it seems that the arm in the cloud is shown illustrated in a Russian reference on this topic indicating the use from 17th to 18th century.

The English cavalry blade looks like an early 19th century sabre blade, and the Yemeni blade appears to be a broadsword as seen on kattara in Oman..both with Solingen blades,can you show the full examples?

[fernando]

Old 5th November 2007, 05:49 A

Posted by:
Chris Evans

Member

Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Australia
Posts: 524

Hi Folks,

Terrific and extremely informative thread. Keep up the good work all of you.

Cheers
Chris

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