BLADE MARKINGS ASSOCIATED WITH EUROPEAN MAKERS

Ibrahiim al Balooshi · 15th October 2017, 11:54 PM

Thanks Jim and congratulations on starting the new and revised edition of this key Forum thread.

I read with interest your notes on the Shotley Bridge situation and wondered if in fact Shotley Bridge ever produced the Running Fox (bushy tail) or if in fact it was only done at Birmingham. Please see for reference http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ht=blade+marks

Certainly the Solingen version of the Running Wolf.. (in fact not a stamp but a hammer and chiseled stick like motif) ..was a Shotley Bridge addition; or at least appeared on their swords. Their is some contention even with this since it could be that blades for refinishing were smuggled from Solingen to the Shotley makers by Mohll himself and it is possible they were struck in Solingen previously. It is also entirely feasible that the Running Wolf were done in Shotley Bridge; Solingen being the origin of those swordmakers.

What is clear is the Running Wolf became a mark placed by various schools of sword production and copied by many others in a similar way to Eye lash /Hogs Back marks / ANDREA FERRERA and other classic marks to infer quality. The Running Wolf or Passau Wolf has moved across international boundaries and almost takes on an air of Talismanic proportions.

Here is the mark on an Omani Dancing Sword randomly struck and somewhat unrecognizable... I place the Running Fox of Samuel Harvey Birmingham with initials and a Solingen Running Wolf for comparison.

Ibrahiim al Balooshi · 16th October 2017, 10:52 AM

PASSAU WOLF. Getting down to the bare historical facts..From

http://www.phil.uni-passau.de/filead...auer_wolf.html

Quote"Passau's city arms shows a red wolf on a silver ground - something unusual within emblems of dioceses. Because it seemed little religious to some people, the wolf was portrayed sometimes with sacral symbols such as a bishop's wand, but this never was used officially.
Since Passau was a clerical principality employing elected bishops of different houses (instead of inheritance within one family), it was difficult to agree upon one lasting city arms. The wolf is said to be bishop Wolfker's (1191-1204) emblem. Other books mention bishop Rüdiger von Radeck (1233-1250), whose family emblem showed the head of a red wolf to which the city arms is attributed. Why and who chose the wolf as Passau's heraldic animal, is still unclear today.

Historic dates on the emblem:

1259, Jan. 29 Bishop Otto von Lonsdorf starts to use a seal showing a wolf. The end of the document says:
Et notandum, quod hec est prima littera, ubi in sigillo a tergo secretum nostrum imprimi fecimus. Quod lupum in scuto pro signo insculptum continet et superscriptionem continet SECRETVM CELA.
(… and it is to take notice that this is the first document in which we impress our secrecay seal into the seal on the back. It shows a wolf in the shield and says "Keep the secret!")
1298 The citizens used a city arms during the rebellion, but had to hand it over lateron.
Before 1300 The wolf is regarded as symbol of the town, but still is not the city arms. It can be found as warrenty and trade mark on blades of swords.
1350 The wolf appears in the Zurich's roll of city arms on the flag of Passau's bishop.
1368 The city of Passau is granted the seal showing a red wolf in a shield.
1432 The bishop concedes the city arms in his speech "Fünferlspruch".
1460 The wolf in the backseal becomes the symbol of the city." Unquote.

Ibrahiim al Balooshi · 16th October 2017, 10:57 AM

From http://www.britishmuseum.org/researc...objectid=42483

Quote"Sword, highly composite, the steel blade nearly flat with a short fuller near the hilt and stamped on either side with two different blademaker's marks, a running wolf, and the inscription SAHAGOM. The grip silver, octagonal in section, ornamented alternately with scrolls in relief and nielloed designs of: Tarquin and Lucretia, Hero and Leander, Judgement of Paris, etc. The arms of the silver-gilt, S-curved cross are spirally twisted and chased with leaves on the front side only. The cross terminals have been engraved to resemble small quatrefoils. The cross includes an integral collar, decorated with a foliate scroll; the pommel area above the grip (but made in one with it) has been decorated with a band of gilding, the area also decorated with foliage in an attempt to match it to the cross collar."Unquote.

shayde78 · 17th October 2017, 03:32 AM

Thank you for recreating this thread from scratch. Such an important repository of information that is much appreciated.

Jim McDougall · 18th October 2017, 11:26 PM

Well done Shayde! Thank you for your great help with this. With your input and all the work Lee and Fernando put in, Fernando was able to restructure much of the original thread (up to #120) on the thread listed TEST on European Armoury.
We'll still keep the new markings thread going here.

shayde78 · 19th October 2017, 12:30 AM

You are kind, but I did very little compared to the lift you, Fernando, and Lee have already undertaken. Wish I could do more, but I appreciate everyone's dedication of time and mental energy.
Cheers!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

Well done Shayde! Thank you for your great help with this. With your input and all the work Lee and Fernando put in, Fernando was able to restructure much of the original thread (up to #120) on the thread listed TEST on European Armoury.
We'll still keep the new markings thread going here.

16th October 2017, 10:57 AM	#3
Ibrahiim al Balooshi Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Buraimi Oman, on the border with the UAE Posts: 4,408	From http://www.britishmuseum.org/researc...objectid=42483 Quote"Sword, highly composite, the steel blade nearly flat with a short fuller near the hilt and stamped on either side with two different blademaker's marks, a running wolf, and the inscription SAHAGOM. The grip silver, octagonal in section, ornamented alternately with scrolls in relief and nielloed designs of: Tarquin and Lucretia, Hero and Leander, Judgement of Paris, etc. The arms of the silver-gilt, S-curved cross are spirally twisted and chased with leaves on the front side only. The cross terminals have been engraved to resemble small quatrefoils. The cross includes an integral collar, decorated with a foliate scroll; the pommel area above the grip (but made in one with it) has been decorated with a band of gilding, the area also decorated with foliage in an attempt to match it to the cross collar."Unquote. Attached Images

15th October 2017, 11:54 PM	#1
Ibrahiim al Balooshi Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Buraimi Oman, on the border with the UAE Posts: 4,408	Thanks Jim and congratulations on starting the new and revised edition of this key Forum thread. I read with interest your notes on the Shotley Bridge situation and wondered if in fact Shotley Bridge ever produced the Running Fox (bushy tail) or if in fact it was only done at Birmingham. Please see for reference http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ht=blade+marks Certainly the Solingen version of the Running Wolf.. (in fact not a stamp but a hammer and chiseled stick like motif) ..was a Shotley Bridge addition; or at least appeared on their swords. Their is some contention even with this since it could be that blades for refinishing were smuggled from Solingen to the Shotley makers by Mohll himself and it is possible they were struck in Solingen previously. It is also entirely feasible that the Running Wolf were done in Shotley Bridge; Solingen being the origin of those swordmakers. What is clear is the Running Wolf became a mark placed by various schools of sword production and copied by many others in a similar way to Eye lash /Hogs Back marks / ANDREA FERRERA and other classic marks to infer quality. The Running Wolf or Passau Wolf has moved across international boundaries and almost takes on an air of Talismanic proportions. Here is the mark on an Omani Dancing Sword randomly struck and somewhat unrecognizable... I place the Running Fox of Samuel Harvey Birmingham with initials and a Solingen Running Wolf for comparison. Attached Images Last edited by Ibrahiim al Balooshi; 16th October 2017 at 02:11 AM.

16th October 2017, 10:52 AM	#2
Ibrahiim al Balooshi Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Buraimi Oman, on the border with the UAE Posts: 4,408	PASSAU WOLF. Getting down to the bare historical facts..From http://www.phil.uni-passau.de/filead...auer_wolf.html Quote"Passau's city arms shows a red wolf on a silver ground - something unusual within emblems of dioceses. Because it seemed little religious to some people, the wolf was portrayed sometimes with sacral symbols such as a bishop's wand, but this never was used officially. Since Passau was a clerical principality employing elected bishops of different houses (instead of inheritance within one family), it was difficult to agree upon one lasting city arms. The wolf is said to be bishop Wolfker's (1191-1204) emblem. Other books mention bishop Rüdiger von Radeck (1233-1250), whose family emblem showed the head of a red wolf to which the city arms is attributed. Why and who chose the wolf as Passau's heraldic animal, is still unclear today. Historic dates on the emblem: 1259, Jan. 29 Bishop Otto von Lonsdorf starts to use a seal showing a wolf. The end of the document says: Et notandum, quod hec est prima littera, ubi in sigillo a tergo secretum nostrum imprimi fecimus. Quod lupum in scuto pro signo insculptum continet et superscriptionem continet SECRETVM CELA. (… and it is to take notice that this is the first document in which we impress our secrecay seal into the seal on the back. It shows a wolf in the shield and says "Keep the secret!") 1298 The citizens used a city arms during the rebellion, but had to hand it over lateron. Before 1300 The wolf is regarded as symbol of the town, but still is not the city arms. It can be found as warrenty and trade mark on blades of swords. 1350 The wolf appears in the Zurich's roll of city arms on the flag of Passau's bishop. 1368 The city of Passau is granted the seal showing a red wolf in a shield. 1432 The bishop concedes the city arms in his speech "Fünferlspruch". 1460 The wolf in the backseal becomes the symbol of the city." Unquote.

17th October 2017, 03:32 AM	#4
shayde78 Member Join Date: Mar 2017 Posts: 445	Thank you for recreating this thread from scratch. Such an important repository of information that is much appreciated.

18th October 2017, 11:26 PM	#5
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,192	Well done Shayde! Thank you for your great help with this. With your input and all the work Lee and Fernando put in, Fernando was able to restructure much of the original thread (up to #120) on the thread listed TEST on European Armoury. We'll still keep the new markings thread going here.