Old Spanish Colonial Sword with Inscription

M ELEY · 19th March 2006, 06:06 AM

Hmmm. Well, it doesn't resemble any of the traditional pieces of Mexico or the American southwest. Likewise, from the limited pieces I've seen of South America (mainly, those pieces of the ealy 19th century with basket-type hilts with the bolted guards/knuckle bows), I still think Jim had it right. The writing is decidedly crude, as found on some espada (I had one with the primative writing "Por la vita, por mei Patria" and have seen others with such), but the shape of the hilt/grip looks more Philippine. Note the lack of the down-turned guard found on so many espada and other SW items. A few years back, we discussed Spanish swords from various ports of origin (Salee, Spanish Moracco, the Caribbean) and the multitude of variations seen on these swords, so in keeping with this, I don't think the blade is such a contradiction. The only other thing that struck me is the thought that this piece could have come from a Spanish/Phillipine port and made the trip over to Colonial New Spain (Mexico). Just speculating. Nice piece, in any case.

Jim McDougall · 19th March 2006, 07:03 PM

Ian , thank you so much for the very kind words!

and Mark I appreciate as always your support.
I still believe this to be a Philippine item because of the rather vestigial form of the hilt, extremely light and seemingly a form reminiscent of the early hilts of espada ancha form. I agree that the Mexican influence was likely borne via the steady commerce between there and the Spanish possessions in the Philippines, and this is most likely a Spanish American war souvenier. The true espada ancha (=wide sword) in Mexico had devolved into virtually a large hunting knife or Bowie lookalike by the 1840's, and the blades were still heavy and typically undecorated, mostly blacksmith grade with crude presence.

Even though the term 'republic' is associated with Mexico with latter pre-revolucion time period and the 'rurales' para-military forces of late 19th century, in this application it seems more likely Philippine insurrection form.

Still a very interesting form, I have one similar but much more plain with a 'bolo' type blade.

All the best,
Jim

RSWORD · 20th March 2006, 01:00 AM

Ian,

I would not rule out the Philippines on this piece. I sold a piece some months back in which the blade was near identical to yours but the handle was wood and was carved to resemble military sabers(it had a carved backstrap as i recall) from Mexico and the scabbard was carved of wood, with a raised throat and chape carved in imitation of leather and brass examples, again most probably from Mexico. The carving suggested strong Philippine origin but was obviously done in imitation of other swords. Was there a source for Mexican weapons in the Philippines at the turn of the century? The form copied seems mid-19th century if not a bit earlier as well. In any case, it was an interesting piece and over the years I have seen this blade style mounted up like Jim's example(bolo) so while not typical of Philippines I think there are enough examples around to give consideration.

Ian · 20th March 2006, 05:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RSWORD

Ian,
... Was there a source for Mexican weapons in the Philippines at the turn of the century? ...

Hi Rick:

Yes, there were close ties between Mexico and the Philippines. I believe many of the Philippines' Governors came from Mexico during the period of Spanish rule.

Ian.

19th March 2006, 06:06 AM	#1
M ELEY Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: NC, U.S.A. Posts: 2,184	Hmmm. Well, it doesn't resemble any of the traditional pieces of Mexico or the American southwest. Likewise, from the limited pieces I've seen of South America (mainly, those pieces of the ealy 19th century with basket-type hilts with the bolted guards/knuckle bows), I still think Jim had it right. The writing is decidedly crude, as found on some espada (I had one with the primative writing "Por la vita, por mei Patria" and have seen others with such), but the shape of the hilt/grip looks more Philippine. Note the lack of the down-turned guard found on so many espada and other SW items. A few years back, we discussed Spanish swords from various ports of origin (Salee, Spanish Moracco, the Caribbean) and the multitude of variations seen on these swords, so in keeping with this, I don't think the blade is such a contradiction. The only other thing that struck me is the thought that this piece could have come from a Spanish/Phillipine port and made the trip over to Colonial New Spain (Mexico). Just speculating. Nice piece, in any case.

19th March 2006, 07:03 PM	#2
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,459	Ian , thank you so much for the very kind words! and Mark I appreciate as always your support. I still believe this to be a Philippine item because of the rather vestigial form of the hilt, extremely light and seemingly a form reminiscent of the early hilts of espada ancha form. I agree that the Mexican influence was likely borne via the steady commerce between there and the Spanish possessions in the Philippines, and this is most likely a Spanish American war souvenier. The true espada ancha (=wide sword) in Mexico had devolved into virtually a large hunting knife or Bowie lookalike by the 1840's, and the blades were still heavy and typically undecorated, mostly blacksmith grade with crude presence. Even though the term 'republic' is associated with Mexico with latter pre-revolucion time period and the 'rurales' para-military forces of late 19th century, in this application it seems more likely Philippine insurrection form. Still a very interesting form, I have one similar but much more plain with a 'bolo' type blade. All the best, Jim

20th March 2006, 01:00 AM	#3
RSWORD Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Greensboro, NC Posts: 1,087	Ian, I would not rule out the Philippines on this piece. I sold a piece some months back in which the blade was near identical to yours but the handle was wood and was carved to resemble military sabers(it had a carved backstrap as i recall) from Mexico and the scabbard was carved of wood, with a raised throat and chape carved in imitation of leather and brass examples, again most probably from Mexico. The carving suggested strong Philippine origin but was obviously done in imitation of other swords. Was there a source for Mexican weapons in the Philippines at the turn of the century? The form copied seems mid-19th century if not a bit earlier as well. In any case, it was an interesting piece and over the years I have seen this blade style mounted up like Jim's example(bolo) so while not typical of Philippines I think there are enough examples around to give consideration.