Old Spanish Knife

fernando · 10th September 2017, 08:35 PM

One more note should be added. This is the type of knife often confused with hunting (plug) bayonets, due to collectors misguidance caused by some well (?) intentioned sellers.

corrado26 · 11th September 2017, 11:09 AM

The hilts in the fotos above are IMO made of two pieces too. This is as I think necessary because only in this way you are able to bring a fitting piece of wood in the interior of the hilt.
corrado26

fernando · 11th September 2017, 11:46 AM

Nothing in contrary

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rickystl · 16th September 2017, 04:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by corrado26

The hilts in the fotos above are IMO made of two pieces too. This is as I think necessary because only in this way you are able to bring a fitting piece of wood in the interior of the hilt.
corrado26

Hi Corrado.

It appears the wood portion is one piece, with the two brass pieces installed over the wood and peened tight using a small brass cap on the end.

Since this knife is not very "old", I could take the option of having the wood portion replaced with a new piece of European walnut and reassemble offering a firm grip. Would not be a difficult job having the old wood as a pattern.

What do you guys think ?

Rick

Dmitry · 24th April 2020, 01:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rickystl

Hi Corrado.

It appears the wood portion is one piece, with the two brass pieces installed over the wood and peened tight using a small brass cap on the end.

Since this knife is not very "old", I could take the option of having the wood portion replaced with a new piece of European walnut and reassemble offering a firm grip. Would not be a difficult job having the old wood as a pattern.

What do you guys think ?

Rick

I know this thread is not recent, but I would advise no to un-peen the tang. The knife looks pretty good the way it is/was.
Also, why do you think your knife isn't as old as the one shown by Fernando? The construction and decor are in the same style, and done in the same fashion. Late 18th-early 19th c. doesn't sound incorrect.

rickystl · 16th September 2017, 04:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fernando

One more note should be added. This is the type of knife often confused with hunting (plug) bayonets, due to collectors misguidance caused by some well (?) intentioned sellers.

Thanks Fernando.

Yes, I can visualize this being confused as a plug type bayonet. It does seem that this handle/hilt style remained popular for a long time. I've seen photos of different blade shapes, still retaining this style of handle/grip.

Rick

fernando · 16th September 2017, 05:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rickystl

... I've seen photos of different blade shapes, still retaining this style of handle/grip...

Yes, the same grip would fit both knives (cuchillos) and puñales (daggers).

Jim McDougall · 16th September 2017, 06:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fernando

One more note should be added. This is the type of knife often confused with hunting (plug) bayonets, due to collectors misguidance caused by some well (?) intentioned sellers.

In the wonderfully informative book "The Plug Bayonet" by the late Roger Evans, it is noted that the plug bayonet, or its form, remained in use for many years as a hunting knife actually long after its use in its original manner of use in the gun had ended.

In looking at this interesting knife of the OP, the form also recalls that of the Chilean 'corvo'. The spectrum of Spanish knives is to me, one of the most intriguing and dynamic in often subtle cross influences.

fernando · 16th September 2017, 07:20 PM

Yes indeed, Jim ...
The 'transference' of the plug bayonet from military to civilan was firstly due to its basic resource purpose; to 'plug' it in the hunter's musket barrel after firing its (single) shot, in defence of a wounded game charge ... like boars, for one, would often do. Only later with the advent of multi shot rifles, this bayonet became more of a game cutting tool and soon ended as a wealthy hunters adornment.

I guess i wouldn't personaly associate Albacete knives with Chilean Corvos. As the name tells (corvo=curved), their characteristic blade shape is what makes a difference in its own.

kronckew · 17th September 2017, 09:49 AM

chilean corvos, their national knife, from the latin 'corvus' - 'raven' or 'crow', referring mostly to it's beak, roman war ships developed a 'corvus' to defeat the cartaginian navy. unfamiliar with naval warfare, the romans were doing badly ast sea, so they brought mass production and infantry warfare to cure the problem. a damaged cathagenian warship was recovered, brought to the naval yards at ostia, disassembled, parts numbered and marked and they proceeded to mass produce each part, then assembled them in reverse order of the disassembly, producing a fleet in weeks rather than months.

they then added a 'corvus', a boarding ramp on a pivot near the bow that could be positioned over the side of a carthaginian ship, then dropped, a sharp large hooked steel spike, the 'beak' of the raven, drove into the planking of the deck and held it fast for an infantry assault by roman legionaries. bye-bye carthage.

a modern army issue corvo is also included below. like an arab jambiyah or moroccan koumiyah, the primary edge is inside the curve and used with the point down, also like the slightly larger roman corvus.

fernando · 17th September 2017, 01:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kronckew

... chilean corvos, their national knife, from the latin 'corvus' - 'raven' or 'crow', referring mostly to it's beak ...

Not the cuervo=raven, Wayne, but the curved=corvo

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kronckew · 17th September 2017, 06:16 PM

i blame google: i shall fire off an error report to them.

i also blame hannibal and julius caesar and all the countries that have mangled latin into the babel of romance languages.

how anyone understands anyone else is a mystery.

p.s. - we have a 'curved', er, crow, living in a leylandii in our garden. poppy visits it every time we go out there walking, and stares at it by pushing into the branches around the base. the bird is not amused. poppy never barks or tries to attack it there tho.

fernando · 17th September 2017, 06:51 PM

The problem is that you got a translation from the portuguese, in which Corvo is a crow; whereas in castillian Corvo means curved and Cuervo is the one living in your garden; subtle differences beween similar (not equal) languages.
On the other hand, Hannibal and Caesar, after a dozen pints of bitter would tell that the beak of your corvu has a curvu shape

.

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17th September 2017, 09:49 AM	#10
kronckew Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Room 101, Glos. UK Posts: 4,216	chilean corvos, their national knife, from the latin 'corvus' - 'raven' or 'crow', referring mostly to it's beak, roman war ships developed a 'corvus' to defeat the cartaginian navy. unfamiliar with naval warfare, the romans were doing badly ast sea, so they brought mass production and infantry warfare to cure the problem. a damaged cathagenian warship was recovered, brought to the naval yards at ostia, disassembled, parts numbered and marked and they proceeded to mass produce each part, then assembled them in reverse order of the disassembly, producing a fleet in weeks rather than months. they then added a 'corvus', a boarding ramp on a pivot near the bow that could be positioned over the side of a carthaginian ship, then dropped, a sharp large hooked steel spike, the 'beak' of the raven, drove into the planking of the deck and held it fast for an infantry assault by roman legionaries. bye-bye carthage. a modern army issue corvo is also included below. like an arab jambiyah or moroccan koumiyah, the primary edge is inside the curve and used with the point down, also like the slightly larger roman corvus. Attached Images Last edited by kronckew; 17th September 2017 at 10:05 AM.

17th September 2017, 06:16 PM	#12
kronckew Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Room 101, Glos. UK Posts: 4,216	i blame google: i shall fire off an error report to them. i also blame hannibal and julius caesar and all the countries that have mangled latin into the babel of romance languages. how anyone understands anyone else is a mystery. p.s. - we have a 'curved', er, crow, living in a leylandii in our garden. poppy visits it every time we go out there walking, and stares at it by pushing into the branches around the base. the bird is not amused. poppy never barks or tries to attack it there tho. Attached Images

17th September 2017, 06:51 PM	#13
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	The problem is that you got a translation from the portuguese, in which Corvo is a crow; whereas in castillian Corvo means curved and Cuervo is the one living in your garden; subtle differences beween similar (not equal) languages. On the other hand, Hannibal and Caesar, after a dozen pints of bitter would tell that the beak of your *corvu* has a curvu shape . . Attached Images

10th September 2017, 08:35 PM	#1
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	One more note should be added. This is the type of knife often confused with hunting (plug) bayonets, due to collectors misguidance caused by some well (?) intentioned sellers.

11th September 2017, 11:09 AM	#2
corrado26 Member Join Date: Dec 2014 Location: Black Forest, Germany Posts: 1,226	The hilts in the fotos above are IMO made of two pieces too. This is as I think necessary because only in this way you are able to bring a fitting piece of wood in the interior of the hilt. corrado26

11th September 2017, 11:46 AM	#3
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	Nothing in contrary .

16th September 2017, 07:20 PM	#9
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	Yes indeed, Jim ... The 'transference' of the plug bayonet from military to civilan was firstly due to its basic resource purpose; to 'plug' it in the hunter's musket barrel after firing its (single) shot, in defence of a wounded game charge ... like boars, for one, would often do. Only later with the advent of multi shot rifles, this bayonet became more of a game cutting tool and soon ended as a wealthy hunters adornment. I guess i wouldn't personaly associate Albacete knives with Chilean Corvos. As the name tells (corvo=curved), their characteristic blade shape is what makes a difference in its own.