Early 17th Century swept hilt rapier with ovoid pommel

[Cerjak]

Originally Posted by cornelistromp

I think it's a left hand rapier with 30-40cm shortened blade.

the twin rapiers, a rapier that is divided into 2 halves, so that as a surprise two weapons arise, to which Philip refers (Boccia/Coelho, ARMI BIANCHE ITALIANE, 555/556) are much longer ; in Boccia bladelengths of 109 and 119cm respectively .

Given the heavy pommel it is more likely that the original length was longer.

(maybe the rapier has been shortened in time for a left handed man with a growth disorder.)


The hilt design seems English (influenced) to me 1620-1640

attached rapier from my coll. with inscription of clemens Meigen.
on JL rapier is Meigen written with a new type E, this E also occurred in the early 17th century

best,
Jasper

Hi Jasper,
Looking at the blade geometry and also at the possibility of a shortened blade,can we have a blade also reshaped ?
With circa 35 cm more, the blade geometry would be somewhat unusual as the actual blade width at the tip is already near is the minimum width for a tip .

best
Jean-Luc

[Robert]

To help read poor inscriptions you can try using a "weak" magnet placed on the backside of the blade (behind the inscription) and very sparingly sprinkle iron powder on the other side where the inscription is. Sometimes you will need to blow lightly on the powder to get it to move around and form letters. This does not always work, but I have had some success using this method.

Best,
Robert

[cornelistromp]

Hi Jean Luc,

yes I think the blade is reshaped at the point.

At the point the blade is not gradually narrowing in width but suddenly, like a colichemarde blade.

This is not common for a rapier blade.

best,
Jasper

ps.
as a general rule. Girard Thibault recommended in his book Academie de l'Espée in 1630 the following length for a rapier;

With the point on the ground, the guillon block reaches the belly button.

[Cerjak]

Originally Posted by cornelistromp

Hi Jean Luc,


ps.
as a general rule. Girard Thibault recommended in his book Academie de l'Espée in 1630 the following length for a rapier;

With the point on the ground, the guillon block reaches the belly button.

Jasper,

So for a 120 cm blade the man would be around 190 cm tall so not common for the period!
Best

Jean-Luc

[cornelistromp]

jean Luc,

when we guess your rapier is shortened by 30cm.
then the length of the right owner is approx. 175cm

for your rapier the man's length should be around 125cm.
fe Tyrion Lannister in games of thrones.

best,
Jasper

[fernando]

I am just a bit taller than a 'shorty' and my belly button stays at 90 cms. May we guess that an 'average plus' guy would have his belly button at 100 cms. ?Meaning that Jean-Luc's sword blade would have beenm shortened by some 20 cms. which, for a blade shortening operation, is still considerable .

[cornelistromp]

Originally Posted by fernando

I am just a bit taller than a 'shorty' and my belly button stays at 90 cms. May we guess that an 'average plus' guy would have his belly button at 100 cms. Meaning that your sword blade would have beenm shortened by some 20 cms. which, for a blade shortening operation, is still considerable .

Hi Fernando,

100cm is approx. men's length of 160cm
see previous post 18, Jean Luc's rapier shortened by 30cm-35cm is very likely.

best,
Jasper

[fernando]

If you allow me to insist, Jasper
Unless we have belly buttons in different places ...
Mine stays at circa 55 % of my total height.
Proportionally, a blade of 100 cms would correspond to a man 183 cms. tall.
Considering an average man of the period measuring 178 cms., its blade would ideally measure 98 cms.
We then would have that Jean Luc's blade, measuring 81 cms and considering it has been mae for a 'normal' man, would have been shortened by no more than 20 cms. as i first suggested.
So sorry for having switched the complicometer