Warangan treatment of an old Javanese blade?

mariusgmioc · 3rd September 2017, 10:14 PM

Javanese?!

I am not very knowledgeable but it looks very Balinese to me.

And 17 century?! It looks early 20 to me... but then, little do I know.

I saw many references to the Krisdisk lately, but how reliable is it?! By taking it as reference aren't we risking to perpetrate some gross errors?!

kai · 4th September 2017, 08:41 AM

Hello Marius,

Quote:

Javanese?!

I am not very knowledgeable but it looks very Balinese to me.

And 17 century?! It looks early 20 to me... but then, little do I know.

You're in good company - many knowledgeable Jawanese did (and some may still do) place well-preserved keris from old European musea as tangguh Bali!

However, these keris are shown by the museum records and additional research to be early collected and many don't appear to originate from Bali but Jawa. Some stylistic details also seem to support such an origin as do probabilities (considering the old trade links).

Quote:

I saw many references to the Krisdisk lately, but how reliable is it?! By taking it as reference aren't we risking to perpetrate some gross errors?!

IMHO it's really worth to have this resource: It's main achievement is showing a good number of keris from old collections (including musea with documented provenance). One may argue about some hypotheses put forward in the Kris Disk - however, the pics alone make it one of the best resources on keris though.

Regards,
Kai

Jean · 4th September 2017, 08:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kai

Hello Marius,

You're in good company - many knowledgeable Jawanese did (and some may still do) place well-preserved keris from old European musea as tangguh Bali!

However, these keris are shown by the museum records and additional research to be early collected and many don't appear to originate from Bali but Jawa. Some stylistic details also seem to support such an origin as do probabilities (considering the old trade links).

IMHO it's really worth to have this resource: It's main achievement is showing a good number of keris from old collections (including musea with documented provenance). One may argue about some hypotheses put forward in the Kris Disk - however, the pics alone make it one of the best resources on keris though.

Regards,
Kai

Hello Kai,
I fully concur with you.
Regards

Bejo · 4th September 2017, 08:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jean

what do you think and which result would you expect?
Regards

I think the pamor will be nice pendaringan kebak (wos wutah type)

Best regards,

Joe

Jean · 4th September 2017, 08:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bejo

I think the pamor will be nice pendaringan kebak (wos wutah type)

Best regards,

Joe

Hello Joe,
You have an eagle's eye, and this is the result.
Regards

Jean · 4th September 2017, 08:43 AM

Hello Marius,
Balinese? There are similarities indeed (greneng, etc) as noted by many authors but look at the blade proportions and the hilt, and do not forget that the early Balinese krisses were derived from Majapahit ones after the conquest of Bali.
And what does allow you to doubt about the provenance of the krisses brought from Banten & Blambangan shown in the Krisdisk and which have been kept in the European collections since the 17th century? These pieces are the most reliable specimens of old krisses available in my opinion.
Regards

Sajen · 4th September 2017, 03:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mariusgmioc

Javanese?!

I am not very knowledgeable but it looks very Balinese to me.

And 17 century?! It looks early 20 to me... but then, little do I know.

I saw many references to the Krisdisk lately, but how reliable is it?! By taking it as reference aren't we risking to perpetrate some gross errors?!

Hello Marius,

you should read more about keris and the Krisdisk from Jensen is a great reference work like Jean and Kai stated before already.

Best regards,
Detlef

mariusgmioc · 4th September 2017, 04:48 PM

Excellent result!

Periodic cleaning and etching of the blade is part of the traditional maintenance process the same way it is oiling.

So, if the pamor is washed out due to too many cycles of oiling and cleaning or for any other reason, it should be brought back. This is part of the normal maintenance of the kris.

Hi Detlef, and thank you for the suggestion! Will do!

3rd September 2017, 10:14 PM	#1
mariusgmioc Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Location: Austria Posts: 1,906	Javanese?! I am not very knowledgeable but it looks very Balinese to me. And 17 century?! It looks early 20 to me... but then, little do I know. I saw many references to the Krisdisk lately, but how reliable is it?! By taking it as reference aren't we risking to perpetrate some gross errors?! Last edited by mariusgmioc; 3rd September 2017 at 10:43 PM.

4th September 2017, 08:43 AM	#6
Jean Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,740	Hello Marius, Balinese? There are similarities indeed (greneng, etc) as noted by many authors but look at the blade proportions and the hilt, and do not forget that the early Balinese krisses were derived from Majapahit ones after the conquest of Bali. And what does allow you to doubt about the provenance of the krisses brought from Banten & Blambangan shown in the Krisdisk and which have been kept in the European collections since the 17th century? These pieces are the most reliable specimens of old krisses available in my opinion. Regards

4th September 2017, 04:48 PM	#8
mariusgmioc Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Location: Austria Posts: 1,906	Excellent result! Periodic cleaning and etching of the blade is part of the traditional maintenance process the same way it is oiling. So, if the pamor is washed out due to too many cycles of oiling and cleaning or for any other reason, it should be brought back. This is part of the normal maintenance of the kris. Hi Detlef, and thank you for the suggestion! Will do!