Collection of Sajen

Kulino · 27th August 2017, 01:53 PM

To conclude this posting of pictures of sajen, I'll add the one which was which I posted earlier.

Sajen · 27th August 2017, 03:41 PM

Hello Kulino,

thank you very much for continue this thread and for sharing this magnificent collection with us, also the in the other forum.
Cees Hendriks has put a great collection together, may your friend rest in peace!

Best regards,
Detlef

Jean · 27th August 2017, 05:14 PM

I second Sajen's comment, what a fantastic collection, my congratulations and also to your late friend Cees Hendriks!
It deserves to be shown in an exhibition or at least a catalogue or book for the benefit of all the collectors!
Regards
Jean

David · 27th August 2017, 07:41 PM

I must concur with my fellows here. For me these are always great to see even if it is difficult to come up with any solid information about them.
This is obviously an old form that i would image probably predates the Mojopahit era that they were once named for. It does seem that they continued to create these little talismanic blades over many centuries without much change so it is indeed difficult to place them into any particular time period with much accuracy. Certainly i believe the in post #32 with the separate gonjo and greneng is a fairly recent example and may or may not have been created solely as an "art" piece. However, if i am not mistaken, even keris sajen that are more recent (created within the last 200 years) may well have been made for genuine talismanic purposes so i don't necessarily discount these newer examples as reproductions or copies, just a continuance of an old tradition. Certainly 18th and 19th century examples of keris sajen were not being made for collector consumption.
On dating these beyond aspects of wear and condition it seems likely that the simpler examples are more likely older. I think the earliest examples tend to be pamor-less, small and very basic. Later examples began to add pamor and sometimes more extensive ricikan. This is an awesome collection of the variance of the form over a number of centuries. Thanks so much for continuing to show them.

Kulino · 27th August 2017, 08:41 PM

Dear all,

Thank you for your kind words. I know that by showing this collection I did something Cees never would have done. Still, it felt the right thing to do for the reasons I mentioned earlier.
If someone has suggestions to make the ideas of Jean happen, I'm willing to talk.

David · 27th August 2017, 09:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kulino

If someone has suggestions to make the ideas of Jean happen, I'm willing to talk.

I would be very interested in a published catalog of these little beauties, though it would probably be more a labor of love that you would be luck to break even on at best. If that is the idea of Jean's that you are considering the first thing you need to do is to create some much better, professional quality images of these blades of the level seen in Iron Ancestors. As a professional photographer i would be more than happy to undertake such a task, however, living so far away that would be just a bit difficult...unless, of course, members here would subsidize my expenses...LOL!

As for an exhibition, you probably live in a better part of the world than most to find a museum that might be interested in presenting such a showing. I'm not sure if an exhibition dedicated solely to this type of keris and related talismanic blades has ever been mounted before, which might be an advantage. Anyway, i'm sure you know who the right curators might be in your country to find if there is any interest in such a show.

A. G. Maisey · 28th August 2017, 01:30 AM

Thank you Kulino for making images of these keris sajen available to us.

I regret I have been unable to make any constructive comments on the images you have posted, but I will add a couple of comments now.

In respect of determination of age, there is a belief amongst some people who have looked closely at the keris sajen, that the head of the hilt figure may give an indication of age. Many hilt figures show some sort of head apparel, a hat, cap or something, the belief is that identification of the head-gear might point towards the period.

The image of a figure with a European style hat tells its own story, and something very unusual about this figure is that the orientation of the blade is reversed.

In the past some people have attempted to paint the keris sajen as a direct continuation of a Dongson knife that had a figural hilt, but to me this seems extremely unlikely as direct cultural links cannot be shown, and the gap between the Dongson era and the Javanese early Classical era is simply too great.

The keris sajen reflects the form of the Modern keris, which means that the keris sajen did not develop as a cultural artifact until after the Modern Keris appeared, which the evidence seems to indicate as circa 14th century, and after the keris penetrated Javanese society as a whole and became endowed with talismanic qualities in its general form, and this seems not to have occurred until after the Islamization of Jawa.

The complete argument against the extreme age of the keris sajen is very lengthy, and here is not the place for it.

The image I have placed into this post that is from Kulino's earlier posting deserves special attention, because the hilt form is an echo of the Dongson form. Although this gives an appearance of age in the image posted, I do have very strong and very well grounded doubts about the true age of this example

27th August 2017, 01:53 PM	#1
Kulino Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Posts: 84	One already posted To conclude this posting of pictures of sajen, I'll add the one which was which I posted earlier. Attached Images

27th August 2017, 08:41 PM	#5
Kulino Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Posts: 84	Thank you Dear all, Thank you for your kind words. I know that by showing this collection I did something Cees never would have done. Still, it felt the right thing to do for the reasons I mentioned earlier. If someone has suggestions to make the ideas of Jean happen, I'm willing to talk.

28th August 2017, 01:30 AM	#7
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,992	Thank you Kulino for making images of these keris sajen available to us. I regret I have been unable to make any constructive comments on the images you have posted, but I will add a couple of comments now. In respect of determination of age, there is a belief amongst some people who have looked closely at the keris sajen, that the head of the hilt figure may give an indication of age. Many hilt figures show some sort of head apparel, a hat, cap or something, the belief is that identification of the head-gear might point towards the period. The image of a figure with a European style hat tells its own story, and something very unusual about this figure is that the orientation of the blade is reversed. In the past some people have attempted to paint the keris sajen as a direct continuation of a Dongson knife that had a figural hilt, but to me this seems extremely unlikely as direct cultural links cannot be shown, and the gap between the Dongson era and the Javanese early Classical era is simply too great. The keris sajen reflects the form of the Modern keris, which means that the keris sajen did not develop as a cultural artifact until after the Modern Keris appeared, which the evidence seems to indicate as circa 14th century, and after the keris penetrated Javanese society as a whole and became endowed with talismanic qualities in its general form, and this seems not to have occurred until after the Islamization of Jawa. The complete argument against the extreme age of the keris sajen is very lengthy, and here is not the place for it. The image I have placed into this post that is from Kulino's earlier posting deserves special attention, because the hilt form is an echo of the Dongson form. Although this gives an appearance of age in the image posted, I do have very strong and very well grounded doubts about the true age of this example Attached Images

27th August 2017, 03:41 PM	#2
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 9,165	Hello Kulino, thank you very much for continue this thread and for sharing this magnificent collection with us, also the in the other forum. Cees Hendriks has put a great collection together, may your friend rest in peace! Best regards, Detlef

27th August 2017, 05:14 PM	#3
Jean Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,740	I second Sajen's comment, what a fantastic collection, my congratulations and also to your late friend Cees Hendriks! It deserves to be shown in an exhibition or at least a catalogue or book for the benefit of all the collectors! Regards Jean

27th August 2017, 07:41 PM	#4
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,211	I must concur with my fellows here. For me these are always great to see even if it is difficult to come up with any solid information about them. This is obviously an old form that i would image probably predates the Mojopahit era that they were once named for. It does seem that they continued to create these little talismanic blades over many centuries without much change so it is indeed difficult to place them into any particular time period with much accuracy. Certainly i believe the in post #32 with the separate gonjo and greneng is a fairly recent example and may or may not have been created solely as an "art" piece. However, if i am not mistaken, even keris sajen that are more recent (created within the last 200 years) may well have been made for genuine talismanic purposes so i don't necessarily discount these newer examples as reproductions or copies, just a continuance of an old tradition. Certainly 18th and 19th century examples of keris sajen were not being made for collector consumption. On dating these beyond aspects of wear and condition it seems likely that the simpler examples are more likely older. I think the earliest examples tend to be pamor-less, small and very basic. Later examples began to add pamor and sometimes more extensive ricikan. This is an awesome collection of the variance of the form over a number of centuries. Thanks so much for continuing to show them.