Bedouin Sabre

Jim McDougall · 24th August 2017, 07:43 PM

Perfectly well spotted Ibrahiim!
This is the kind of thread and perpetuation of discussion which is constructive in advancing our knowledge on a certain form or topic, and this example is classic in these Bedouin/Palestinian type sabres.

As Ibrahiim has well noted, this is clearly a blade marked with imitation inscription of much favored Hungarian type blades, in this case what have become known as 'the Transylvanian knot', a talismanic device in numerous forms. Ariel discovered these references to their character in an obscure reference on Hungarian swords some years ago (perhaps he could elaborate more as this was an astounding find).

As I recall, the '4' was indeed a talismanically oriented symbol used in a number of contexts, and the birds (I believe pigeons) were also symbolically dynamic with the 'Vivat Pandour' motto often included.

Here the AEGYPT word does, as Kubur astutely notes, does suggest association with the Sinai, and it is tempting of course to suggest the Greek structure in the spelling (though I do not wish to incur the linguistic barrage that presently looms large nearby).

These are intriguing swords with an often rustic charm about them, and though hard to define regionally by the very diffused nature of these fascinating tribal people who used them, they are always exciting to see.

ariel · 25th August 2017, 02:45 AM

As a matter of fact, the word "Aegypt" on the blade does not necessarily localize this saber to Sinai Peninsula.
Egypt controlled it between 1918 and 1967, and then it was captured by Israel in 1967 and went back to Egypt at the end of 1970s- early 1980s as a result of peace treaty.

But this saber is obviously much older ( I would not argue with the second half of 19th- century). However, up until 1918 Ottoman Empire owned everything from Suez all the way up north, towards Bedouin clans in the Galilee ( North Israel), as mentioned by broadaxe. Thus, an Egypt-made blade could have been used all over that area. Till 1967, Bedouins moved freely between the Egypt-controlled Sinai and Transjordan.

Ibrahiim al Balooshi · 25th August 2017, 04:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

Perfectly well spotted Ibrahiim!
This is the kind of thread and perpetuation of discussion which is constructive in advancing our knowledge on a certain form or topic, and this example is classic in these Bedouin/Palestinian type sabres.

As Ibrahiim has well noted, this is clearly a blade marked with imitation inscription of much favored Hungarian type blades, in this case what have become known as 'the Transylvanian knot', a talismanic device in numerous forms. Ariel discovered these references to their character in an obscure reference on Hungarian swords some years ago (perhaps he could elaborate more as this was an astounding find).

As I recall, the '4' was indeed a talismanically oriented symbol used in a number of contexts, and the birds (I believe pigeons) were also symbolically dynamic with the 'Vivat Pandour' motto often included.

Here the AEGYPT word does, as Kubur astutely notes, does suggest association with the Sinai, and it is tempting of course to suggest the Greek structure in the spelling (though I do not wish to incur the linguistic barrage that presently looms large nearby).

These are intriguing swords with an often rustic charm about them, and though hard to define regionally by the very diffused nature of these fascinating tribal people who used them, they are always exciting to see.

Thank You Jim, An excellent and well thought through reply like that inspires members to write and to research. This is a great subject. I noted the thread of a while ago and went back for it at~ http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...SYLVANIAN+KNOT

The Hungarian connection to the mystical bird is very interesting. I saw this on a number of Hungarian sword blades looking like a sort of pigeon on other decorative backgrounds . In fact there is a very famous bird in Hungarian mythology viz;

Turul (animal) The great bird resembling to a falcon that was sent forth by Isten to guide the creation and destiny of the Magyar people. The first kings after St Stephen I. were the hereditiary of Turul ("Turul nemzetség")

24th August 2017, 07:43 PM	#1
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,194	Perfectly well spotted Ibrahiim! This is the kind of thread and perpetuation of discussion which is constructive in advancing our knowledge on a certain form or topic, and this example is classic in these Bedouin/Palestinian type sabres. As Ibrahiim has well noted, this is clearly a blade marked with imitation inscription of much favored Hungarian type blades, in this case what have become known as 'the Transylvanian knot', a talismanic device in numerous forms. Ariel discovered these references to their character in an obscure reference on Hungarian swords some years ago (perhaps he could elaborate more as this was an astounding find). As I recall, the '4' was indeed a talismanically oriented symbol used in a number of contexts, and the birds (I believe pigeons) were also symbolically dynamic with the 'Vivat Pandour' motto often included. Here the AEGYPT word does, as Kubur astutely notes, does suggest association with the Sinai, and it is tempting of course to suggest the Greek structure in the spelling (though I do not wish to incur the linguistic barrage that presently looms large nearby). These are intriguing swords with an often rustic charm about them, and though hard to define regionally by the very diffused nature of these fascinating tribal people who used them, they are always exciting to see.

25th August 2017, 02:45 AM	#2
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	As a matter of fact, the word "Aegypt" on the blade does not necessarily localize this saber to Sinai Peninsula. Egypt controlled it between 1918 and 1967, and then it was captured by Israel in 1967 and went back to Egypt at the end of 1970s- early 1980s as a result of peace treaty. But this saber is obviously much older ( I would not argue with the second half of 19th- century). However, up until 1918 Ottoman Empire owned everything from Suez all the way up north, towards Bedouin clans in the Galilee ( North Israel), as mentioned by broadaxe. Thus, an Egypt-made blade could have been used all over that area. Till 1967, Bedouins moved freely between the Egypt-controlled Sinai and Transjordan.