19th C. stiletto?

Roland_M · 23rd August 2017, 11:42 AM

Hello,

first I would say, this is no stiletto, it's a dagger. The blade is too broad for a stiletto in my opinion.

From the style it is a venetian dagger.

The whole piece seems to be a well made 19.ct. historism reproduction of a venetian dagger.

Roland

shayde78 · 5th October 2020, 02:36 PM

Hello everyone,

I was waiting for a week to post this as I stumbled upon a very similar dagger to the one I posted here 3 years ago. I needed to wait for the auction to end before I could ask questions about it. Here is the link to the now ended auction (moderators, please let me know if this is consistent with the rules).

You will see the hilt furniture and dimensions are virtual twins of the item originally posted on this thread. The only significant difference that I can see is that the blade of the recently sold dagger has a maker's mark. I'm wondering if that indicates any clues about the age/origin of my piece shown in the first post.

I am including pictures from the auction below so they may remain after the auction link is no longer active.

I look forward to reading your perspectives.

corrado26 · 5th October 2020, 03:15 PM

When you look at the fotos of my example you immediately will see the differences: At my stiletto there are two metal rings at both ends of the wooden grip. These are missing at your oiece what makes me think that this is not original.

shayde78 · 5th October 2020, 03:20 PM

Thanks corrado for posting another beautiful example. The conversation from 2017 settled on the fact that this is not a stilleto, but rather a dagger, and was uncertain if it were correct to a pre-Victorian period, or something later. I'm curious what are the implications of another item looking so similar, but with a blade of different cross-section and with a maker's mark. Seems like this isn't something mass produced, but also something that wasn't a one-off hobbyist's project.

alex8765 · 6th October 2020, 06:00 PM

This is vintage replica, with the blade shaped like WW2 German Army dagger blade. Most likely the blade is from post WW2 German dagger, like this one. This blade is exactly the same length as yours.

shayde78 · 15th October 2020, 03:37 PM

Thanks Alex - that blade geometry is close to the blade in my original example. I have found that many single handed thrusting weapons from many cultures have blades that are approximately the same length, so I'm not sure that is the defining indicator, but the similar bevels and overall dimensions are very similar.

About the maker's mark shown on the more recent example (that isn't mine, but was recently up for auction), does that indicate an older blade form a different source that just happened to find its way into identical mounts?

alex8765 · 18th October 2020, 05:31 PM

The pommel and the crossguard of your more recent example look casted, not chiseled. So, most likely it is mid-19th century dagger. I've never seen this maker's mark before, but blade's geometry look mid-19th as well. Just my opinion. Sometimes, this seller sells artificially aged modern replicas. This dagger well could be one of those. It's hard to tell without visual examination.

23rd August 2017, 11:42 AM	#1
Roland_M Member Join Date: Aug 2014 Location: Germany Posts: 525	Hello, first I would say, this is no stiletto, it's a dagger. The blade is too broad for a stiletto in my opinion. From the style it is a venetian dagger. The whole piece seems to be a well made 19.ct. historism reproduction of a venetian dagger. Roland Last edited by Roland_M; 23rd August 2017 at 03:17 PM.

5th October 2020, 02:36 PM	#2
shayde78 Member Join Date: Mar 2017 Posts: 445	Hello everyone, I was waiting for a week to post this as I stumbled upon a very similar dagger to the one I posted here 3 years ago. I needed to wait for the auction to end before I could ask questions about it. Here is the link to the now ended auction (moderators, please let me know if this is consistent with the rules). You will see the hilt furniture and dimensions are virtual twins of the item originally posted on this thread. The only significant difference that I can see is that the blade of the recently sold dagger has a maker's mark. I'm wondering if that indicates any clues about the age/origin of my piece shown in the first post. I am including pictures from the auction below so they may remain after the auction link is no longer active. I look forward to reading your perspectives. Attached Images

5th October 2020, 03:15 PM	#3
corrado26 Member Join Date: Dec 2014 Location: Black Forest, Germany Posts: 1,226	When you look at the fotos of my example you immediately will see the differences: At my stiletto there are two metal rings at both ends of the wooden grip. These are missing at your oiece what makes me think that this is not original. Attached Images

6th October 2020, 06:00 PM	#5
alex8765 Member Join Date: Nov 2018 Location: NYC Posts: 63	This is vintage replica, with the blade shaped like WW2 German Army dagger blade. Most likely the blade is from post WW2 German dagger, like this one. This blade is exactly the same length as yours. Attached Images

5th October 2020, 03:20 PM	#4
shayde78 Member Join Date: Mar 2017 Posts: 445	Thanks corrado for posting another beautiful example. The conversation from 2017 settled on the fact that this is not a stilleto, but rather a dagger, and was uncertain if it were correct to a pre-Victorian period, or something later. I'm curious what are the implications of another item looking so similar, but with a blade of different cross-section and with a maker's mark. Seems like this isn't something mass produced, but also something that wasn't a one-off hobbyist's project.

15th October 2020, 03:37 PM	#6
shayde78 Member Join Date: Mar 2017 Posts: 445	Thanks Alex - that blade geometry is close to the blade in my original example. I have found that many single handed thrusting weapons from many cultures have blades that are approximately the same length, so I'm not sure that is the defining indicator, but the similar bevels and overall dimensions are very similar. About the maker's mark shown on the more recent example (that isn't mine, but was recently up for auction), does that indicate an older blade form a different source that just happened to find its way into identical mounts?

18th October 2020, 05:31 PM	#7
alex8765 Member Join Date: Nov 2018 Location: NYC Posts: 63	The pommel and the crossguard of your more recent example look casted, not chiseled. So, most likely it is mid-19th century dagger. I've never seen this maker's mark before, but blade's geometry look mid-19th as well. Just my opinion. Sometimes, this seller sells artificially aged modern replicas. This dagger well could be one of those. It's hard to tell without visual examination.