Sudanese warrior question

[Iain]

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

It does not seem that volumes of 'captured' crusaders arms were marketed as trophies to anxious tribal consumers. Only a few such 'trophy' swords were kept, and these were placed in the armoury in Alexandria. Most weapons gathered from these battlefields were typically 'recycled' as the metal was valuable in forging new arms by Muslim sources. With the European 'salvors', these gathered arms became saleable surplus, which as noted arrived in the volumes of materials exported.

Many of these early blades did circulate for a time through generations in North Africa, but most surviving examples (with rare exceptions) are blades from the mid to late 19th century which are products of the Mahdist period, some pre WWI, then post 1940s.

I hope this elaborates a bit more on the 'kaskara' question, and I hope Iain will adjust or add to what my perceptions state here. The reason I 'quote' the term kaskara, is that this very word is not even used in the Sudan or anywhere it is used to describe it. It is simply known locally as sa'if.
This term was derived from a Saharan tribal dialect by European linguists it appears, and became entered into the glossary of 'collectors' terms.

Hi Jim, as always a very succinct and informative post. I have to admit I have spent much less time researching the kaskara, although the name as you rightly point out is simply down to the fact that Stone labelled it as a kaskara (rightly in his case since he was specifically referring to use by the Bagirmi kingdom) and the term was then simply used by all and sundry to refer to swords from Sudan. However, given current forum discussions featuring the name game and not wanting to distract from the real topic at hand I'll move on...

Just a small point in the complete and well known grouping of swords that entered the Alexandria armoury, thanks to the excellent research of Clive Thomas, David Oliver and of course D.G. Alexander on these swords, we know most of these were in fact diplomatic gifts as part of treaties with Cyrpus. Even less romantic than war trophies!

Further, I have always to a degree questioned the idea of old blades being dumped on the African market when we have plenty of sources illustrating a thriving export industry from Europe to Mamluk Egypt and the Ottomans during the 15th century and later, although this was hardly legal. Mamluk Egypt also had a heavy reliance on European trade for metals including steel. In short I think the trade in blades was contemporary rather than old stock.

To get back to the original question of just when a kaskara became a kaskara, I think its important to note that we are essentially discussing a hilt form. In particular a form comprised of a guard with a cruciform shape and inveriably having an extension over the blade.

This style of guard was quite popular within Mamluk swords, not only on straight blades but also sabres. It differs significantly from another common but older style with larger pommels and shorter guards. While no expert in Mamluk weaponry as near as I can gather this style emerges in the late 15th century, as the piece in the image attached illustrates.

This is more or less the pattern the kaskara follows, although in the latter the pommel over time degenerates to a simple wrapped nub of leather and the grip is simplified as well.

Unsurprisingly the late 15th century and early 16th also is the period when Sennar, a kingdom heavily tied to Ottoman Egypt arises and notable for their heavy calvary patterned after the Mamluk model...

[Jim McDougall]

Thank you Iain! and I as I had hoped, you have added exactly the edifications and notes much needed to better detail these developments with kaskara. I think Stone used the term drawn from Burton (1884) where indeed the Baghirmi usage was properly placed. It is surprising that Burton, an almost obsessive linguist and copious writer of footnotes, did not bother to note the kaskara term. This omission, given his reputation, seems to have implied that the term was broadly in use for these broadswords, and led to the sundry application that emerged via the Stone reference.

I did not realize that those Alexandria swords were diplomatic gifts, but that would explain that they were typical inscribed in Arabic. I had forgotten that detail, and as you note, far from being 'trophies'.

Thank you for adding the notes on Sennar as well, and I was trying to recall that very important kingdom, who seem to have been well aligned with the Mamluks, who had been filtering out of Egypt into those Sudanic regions for some time especially with their disastrous crushing by the Ottomans in 1517. They were well emplaced there when the Sultan from Egypt invaded there c. 1821 and finished the Mamluks as well as overtaking these regions to Ottoman rule. The ultimate beginning of the Mahdist rebellions of 1880s.

I totally agree, most of the blades we see are far more contemporary than these early ones. I also agree that the established trade between Europe and the Ottomans provided a pretty standard supply , and that the instances of notable crusader period items that have been discovered (as we know) were more of one off anomalies than surplus offal being unloaded into these markets.

[ariel]

Well, guys. I have been ironic with the "crusader" attribution:-)

I am unaware of any surviving Sudanese swords with medieval European blades, or even Mamluk ones. Was it possible to find one really-really old blade 300-500 years ago? Who knows? Perhaps. My Time Machine is in the garage right now ( you know, oil, filters, tranny is acting up, carburetor needs cleaning, heavy water tank is leaking, unobtainium has degraded... the usual...). As soon as Mr. Lou finishes his job and pockets my check, I shall let you know.

[Iain]

Originally Posted by ariel

Well, guys. I have been ironic with the "crusader" attribution:-)

I am unaware of any surviving Sudanese swords with medieval European blades, or even Mamluk ones. Was it possible to find one really-really old blade 300-500 years ago? Who knows? Perhaps. My Time Machine is in the garage right now ( you know, oil, filters, tranny is acting up, carburetor needs cleaning, heavy water tank is leaking, unobtainium has degraded... the usual...). As soon as Mr. Lou finishes his job and pockets my check, I shall let you know.

The British museum has a very good example with an at least early blade.
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=16814

The Met has a quite interesting example with a Persian blade.

I can't recall a specifically medieval one. However nobody thought they existed in takouba either and I'm happy to say that changed... There might be a few others out there with at least 16th century trade blades.

[Timo Nieminen]

There's an example in Stone's Glossary (fig 425, sword 1) dated AH357 (AD967), according to the inscription on the blade. Can't tell much from the photo in Stone.

I wonder if it looks somewhat like this one?: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showpo...9&postcount=17

[Iain]

Originally Posted by Timo Nieminen

There's an example in Stone's Glossary (fig 425, sword 1) dated AH357 (AD967), according to the inscription on the blade. Can't tell much from the photo in Stone.

I wonder if it looks somewhat like this one?: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showpo...9&postcount=17

Dates appearing in text on these blades are often tricky, they often don't indicate age but rather refer to historical events. The one pictured in Stone certainly is nowhere near that age but does appear from the photo to be a likely European blade in good mounts.