Determine Front Side of The Pendok

Sajen · 19th August 2017, 02:20 AM

After a second look I think that A could be the front side. And I am sure that I have seen this what Rick decribe as pillar motive before, I need to check my collection for this.

Sajen · 19th August 2017, 02:49 AM

Have found it in a box where I keep a lot of different pendoks as spare parts. Not direct the same style but this pillars are present here as well. I ever have thought that my pendok is a Banyumas pendok but I could be wrong.

Regards,
Detlef

A. G. Maisey · 19th August 2017, 03:39 AM

The motif on Bejo's pendok and the motif on Detlef's pendok are not the same, nor similar, but are philosophically related.

Detlef's pendok has a motif that symbolises emerging life. At the top there is a butterfly, or moth, if we track this butterfly down to the beginning of the motif at the tip of the pendok, we will see that the butterfly has experienced a journey from chrysalis to grown beast with spread wings. This is a statement of the way in which life grows, something of particular importance to an agrarian based society.

Bejo's motif is different. This one I do not know for certain, but a very highly regarded silver & gold smith who specialised in keris fittings and who lived in Solo once told me that in his opinion this angular upright was a stylization of the Kalpataru, the Tree of Life.

I am inclined to accept this as an accurate opinion, because if we look at the literature on Indonesian art motifs we frequently see the Kalpataru represented in a very sparse, angular fashion.

Detlef, I consider your pendok to be Banyumas. If we are both wrong, then a very great number of Javanese keris literate people will also be wrong.

Bejo's pendok I'm a bit hesitant about, my inclination is to think of it as quite recent, say within the last 50 years, and made in the style of Banyumas, but in Jogja.

Bejo, a question:- is your pendok silver, and if so, what is its weight?

Bejo · 19th August 2017, 10:19 AM

Thank you for all the opinions. That really help me

Quote:

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

Bejo, a question:- is your pendok silver, and if so, what is its weight?

Yes, the pendok is made from silver. Its weight 41 gram, 33.5 cm long.

Thank you,

Best regards,

Joe

Sajen · 19th August 2017, 10:52 AM

Hello Alan,

and what you think is the front side from Bejos pendok?

Regards,
Detlef

Sajen · 19th August 2017, 11:00 AM

I received from a friend a picture from another pendok in the same style.

Sajen · 19th August 2017, 01:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

Detlef, I consider your pendok to be Banyumas. If we are both wrong, then a very great number of Javanese keris literate people will also be wrong.

rasdan · 19th August 2017, 03:47 AM

Hi guys,

I don't know if it is normal for a North Coast Javanese pendok to have 2 design on each side with more or less similar level of workmanship. On Malay pendok usually the one on the back is less refined than the front.

Is side B motif Javanese? Probably one motif was made earlier than the other? Regarding the side with "pillar" design, if I am not mistaken, according to Alan, it is symbolic of renewal of life.

Here's a quote from Alan's previous catalogue, describing this motif "it shows the pupa of a dragonfly, progressing to its adult form. In Javanese symbolism, the dragonfly can be understood as a symbol related to the warrior, so the symbolism of this pendok is in fact closely related to extinction of, and renewal of life, a theme that is frequently found in Javanese art and thought."

If we look closely, there's a motif that starts from the bottom of the pendok "making it's" way to the top of the pendok and it's size and refinement grows as it reaches the top. I provide an example of this motif below.

rasdan · 19th August 2017, 03:49 AM

I think my post above was posted at the same time as Alan and Detlief. Sorry if there is any confusion.

A. G. Maisey · 19th August 2017, 04:25 AM

Thanks for that Rasdan.

The dragonfly is probably better, because of the warrior connotation, but I have seen this motif interpreted as butterfly/moth also.

rasdan · 19th August 2017, 11:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

Thanks for that Rasdan.

The dragonfly is probably better, because of the warrior connotation, but I have seen this motif interpreted as butterfly/moth also.

No worries, Alan. Thanks for the other interpretations (moth/butterfly) as well. I have zero knowledge in this area and I think this area is rather neglected in keris research.

A. G. Maisey · 19th August 2017, 01:54 PM

I have no idea at all which side is supposed to be the front. When in doubt I fit the pendok to a suitable wrongko and see which way it sits correctly.

Bejo, I feel that your pendok is very probably old, 41gm is too light for a recent pendok, old silver pendoks were usually lighter than more recent ones.

Jean · 19th August 2017, 02:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

I have no idea at all which side is supposed to be the front. When in doubt I fit the pendok to a suitable wrongko and see which way it sits correctly.

From the pics, Bejo's pendok looks very symmetrical at least on top side so fitting it to a wrongko may not help much.
The 3 reasons wich make me feel that B is the front side are as follows:
. To my eyes the embossed motif is more finely made on side B
. The main motif is framed on side B unlike on side A
. From the pics there seems to be more dark patina & wear near the bottom tip on side A
My personal opinion only...
Regards

19th August 2017, 02:49 AM	#2
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 9,417	Have found it in a box where I keep a lot of different pendoks as spare parts. Not direct the same style but this pillars are present here as well. I ever have thought that my pendok is a Banyumas pendok but I could be wrong. Regards, Detlef Attached Images

19th August 2017, 11:00 AM	#6
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 9,417	I received from a friend a picture from another pendok in the same style. Attached Images

19th August 2017, 03:47 AM	#8
rasdan Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Kuala Lumpur Posts: 369	Hi guys, I don't know if it is normal for a North Coast Javanese pendok to have 2 design on each side with more or less similar level of workmanship. On Malay pendok usually the one on the back is less refined than the front. Is side B motif Javanese? Probably one motif was made earlier than the other? Regarding the side with "pillar" design, if I am not mistaken, according to Alan, it is symbolic of renewal of life. Here's a quote from Alan's previous catalogue, describing this motif "it shows the pupa of a dragonfly, progressing to its adult form. In Javanese symbolism, the dragonfly can be understood as a symbol related to the warrior, so the symbolism of this pendok is in fact closely related to extinction of, and renewal of life, a theme that is frequently found in Javanese art and thought." If we look closely, there's a motif that starts from the bottom of the pendok "making it's" way to the top of the pendok and it's size and refinement grows as it reaches the top. I provide an example of this motif below. Attached Images Last edited by rasdan; 19th August 2017 at 11:59 AM.

19th August 2017, 02:20 AM	#1
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 9,417	After a second look I think that A could be the front side. And I am sure that I have seen this what Rick decribe as pillar motive before, I need to check my collection for this.

19th August 2017, 03:39 AM	#3
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,085	The motif on Bejo's pendok and the motif on Detlef's pendok are not the same, nor similar, but are philosophically related. Detlef's pendok has a motif that symbolises emerging life. At the top there is a butterfly, or moth, if we track this butterfly down to the beginning of the motif at the tip of the pendok, we will see that the butterfly has experienced a journey from chrysalis to grown beast with spread wings. This is a statement of the way in which life grows, something of particular importance to an agrarian based society. Bejo's motif is different. This one I do not know for certain, but a very highly regarded silver & gold smith who specialised in keris fittings and who lived in Solo once told me that in his opinion this angular upright was a stylization of the Kalpataru, the Tree of Life. I am inclined to accept this as an accurate opinion, because if we look at the literature on Indonesian art motifs we frequently see the Kalpataru represented in a very sparse, angular fashion. Detlef, I consider your pendok to be Banyumas. If we are both wrong, then a very great number of Javanese keris literate people will also be wrong. Bejo's pendok I'm a bit hesitant about, my inclination is to think of it as quite recent, say within the last 50 years, and made in the style of Banyumas, but in Jogja. Bejo, a question:- is your pendok silver, and if so, what is its weight?

19th August 2017, 10:52 AM	#5
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 9,417	Hello Alan, and what you think is the front side from Bejos pendok? Regards, Detlef

19th August 2017, 03:49 AM	#9
rasdan Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Kuala Lumpur Posts: 369	I think my post above was posted at the same time as Alan and Detlief. Sorry if there is any confusion.

19th August 2017, 04:25 AM	#10
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,085	Thanks for that Rasdan. The dragonfly is probably better, because of the warrior connotation, but I have seen this motif interpreted as butterfly/moth also.

19th August 2017, 01:54 PM	#12
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,085	I have no idea at all which side is supposed to be the front. When in doubt I fit the pendok to a suitable wrongko and see which way it sits correctly. Bejo, I feel that your pendok is very probably old, 41gm is too light for a recent pendok, old silver pendoks were usually lighter than more recent ones.