THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN A MOROCCAN AND A ZANZIBARI NIMCHA.

[kronckew]

Originally Posted by fernando

What a comprehensive approach, Wayne .
Still a pity my shorter version, much easier to digest , not being (necessarily) correct .
... All in all this is a shceme to prevent the sword carrier from foooling around, right ?

correct.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Artwork. THE MOROCCAN NIMCHA.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

What is this? Not to be amazed at what can come out of India ... I thought this has to be recorded ... It is claimed as Indian 17th Century... Photographed at the San Diego Museum of Art in San Diego, California. Comments please?

As an afternote I add that in Diverse arms Orientals plate 32 Butin there are several Horse heads with what could be called ears. In addition there was a sword of Tipu Sultan with similar hilt. See http://www.tessier-sarrou.com/html/f...rdre=&aff=5&r= and below

The finial at the end of the knuckleguard on the Indian item ends in a bud whereas on the Zanzibari Ivory piece it is a geometric dragon with RR almost as a monogram with fowers and dots engraved. The Knuckleguard however follows the contours of the horses face in both.

The quality of craftsmen in the Indian Ocean basin was excellent as seen by the Ivory carved hilt and by ivory combs executed in exacting detail. Thus the Indian version is viewed perhaps as a hybrid of top class artesanship in the general region.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Reference;
A. http://nimcha.fr/N-protection.htm

The pitones
Copied on the Spanish sword guards of the late 15th and early 16th century, the pitones equip the Hispano-Moorish nimchas . This type of device, which never existed in Spain, is found on very rare ancient examples of Moroccan nimchas and never on Arab sayfs. Ref .: Museum Real Arméria of Madrid, Museum of Batha in Fez and work of Charles Buttin.

(While I was constructing this frame I was also inspired to do a thread on Quilons on ethnographic since there are widely ranging aspects to that part of the sword and occasionally dagger.)

(I add the Tulvar out of interest since this is not only a decorative or functional extension of the hilt forward of the guard but a type of breakwater device to entrap a sliding blade.)

[werecow]

I just bought a Zanzibari saif and I already had a Moroccan and a Yemeni one, so I thought I'd add my datapoint and resurrect this old thread. See pictures. The tape measure is in cm. First picture, top is the Zanzibar, middle is Moroccan, bottom is the Yemeni one. Sorry about the slight blurriness, my phone's camera has no manual focus option and it insists on focusing on nothing in particular.

A few things I found interesting: the Zanzibar one handles much more easily than the Moroccan one in spite of them looking pretty similar. It has a very thin blade (4mm at the base down to 2mm at 10cm before the tip). The Moroccan one is significantly thicker (6mm at the base down to 3mm near the tip) and a few cm longer.

You don't see a lot of straight blades on the Moroccan ones, whereas I've seen a few of the Zanzibar type now. It gives it more of an older type of saif look. I quite like it, as most of the swords I own either have curved blades or are much more thrust centric (it's the main reason why I decided to pick it up). I'm not sure whether the scabbard is original or something made later on, but it does look like it has some age to it. It seems intended for storage rather than wearing as there are no suspension rings.

I wonder if the little knuckle protecting side branch on the Moroccan one's guard (which AFAIK is not typical; see picture 3 which for some reason got flipped upside down during upload) was inspired by the side ring on the Zanzibar models?

[werecow]

Also, while I'm on the subject, does anyone recognize these inscriptions on the Moroccan nimcha/saif?

(Sorry about the poor lighting; also for some reason the 2nd image is right side up on my PC but upside down after the upload. Some metadata problem no doubt.)

[Jim McDougall]

Wonderful grouping!! These are excellent examples of these sa'if of the Arab sphere. It is important to note that this does not mean 'Arabian' as in Arabia proper, but in the places where Arabs populate the regions, not meaning to get into ethnic discussion.
By the same token, the Moroccan example has long been known colloquially as a 'nimcha', by collectors, but overall, these are all simply termed sa'if.

These are likely 19th century but could be earlier, especially the one you note as Yemeni, which is actually more to the Hadhramaut regions (as described in Elgood, "Arms & Armour of Arabia".

The example with extended crossguard ring has also been somehow classified in collectors circles as 'zanzibari', however in Buttin (1933) these are noted as Arab sa'if, with no mention of Zanzibar. Naturally these were present there, but by no means were they exclusively from there. It seems this classification appeared in a number of references in 1980s.

The blades on these are invariably trade blades, German of course, and the blades are typically early 19th c. These were most typically acquired from Bedouin traders by armorers mounting blades into hilts in locations often in Yemen. With the Moroccan examples (which were often Algerian as well) these were mounted with trade blades, and armorers often added the 'sickle marks' approximating the so called 'Genoan' marks.

The straight blade on the 'Zanzibar' example is of a type of trade blade usually into Ethiopia late 19th c. which usually ended up traded into Yemeni markets. These were often mounted in Yemen on silver hilts of a different form. Ethiopian swords often went into Arabia as the Arabs were after the rhino horn typically on the Ethiopian shotels for their kahdjhar daggers.

In rereading this thread, I just wanted to say that the work done by Ibrahiim al Balooshi (Peter Hudson) here in examining these forms was brilliant! I learned a great deal from his research and contributions.