Poisoned keris blade

David · 1st August 2017, 01:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kronckew

i've seen a video of a Filipino blacksmith 'poisoning' a blade with dead venomous spider mash. he then heated the blade red hot and hardened/quenched and tempered it. i'm fairly sure no viable poison, if there ever was any, remained. purely symbolic/magical at that point.

I have encountered legends of poison keris blades from time to time, but like many such stories there never seems to be anything substantial behind them to back them up.
What happens in the Philippines bears no reference to Sumatran keris blades. Certainly there are numerous cultures around the world who do indeed employ poisons on their weapons either for warfare or hunting. AFAIK it is not a legitimate part of any keris bearing cultures. The stories may have arisen from some misapprehension of the purpose and use of arsenic in staining blades.
As for our Filipino smith, i would agree that after that heating and quenching process no viable poison would remain on that blade anyway.

oracle_2010 · 1st August 2017, 02:55 PM

Thank you so much for the explanation, it's really giving me more knowledge.

By the way, if you see the photo of the keris, the middle to the tip ("the blackened part") have more porous texture compared to the ganja to the middle part of the blade. And also I havent tried it's reaction upon exposure to blood. Maybe it's worth the try.. 🤔

kai · 2nd August 2017, 12:49 AM

Quote:

And also I havent tried it's reaction upon exposure to blood. Maybe it's worth the try..

What do you expect to prove/verify by this?

I'd avoid blood - it's not easy to completely clean/remove and quite corrosive!

Regards,
Kai

Jean · 2nd August 2017, 08:53 AM

I attach the pic of a similar kris, the blade was cleaned and lightly treated with warangan in Solo, it has no apparent pamor pattern so the color is dark grey.
Regards

oracle_2010 · 2nd August 2017, 03:24 PM

I thought that it may affect the clotting time of blood. Maybe simple blood clotting test could be done.. and clean it with lime juice afterwards? To check if the blackened part of the blade may really affect the color and clotting time of blood. But I'm not sure whether it could be completely cleaned from the blade or not, that's why I'm still hesitating.

By the way, the kris is obtained in Pagaralam, South Sumatra. Not from other province

Rick · 2nd August 2017, 06:50 PM

Clotting time has more to do with the platelet count of the person being stabbed than the keris.
Having said that the larger the wound the more bleeding that will take place.

I think we're wandering a bit from the purpose of this forum to off-topic territory here.

A. G. Maisey · 2nd August 2017, 11:04 PM

I agree with the previous comments posted to this thread.

About ten years ago, an Australian lady named Georgia Harvey researched the the matter of residual arsenic on keris blades. Her paper can be downloaded from here:-

https://aiccm.org.au/aiccm-publicati...-103-june-2007

go to the download of the journal, the paper begins on P.19, it is able to be copied.

Further on poisoned blades. I think it was Gardner who first floated the poisoned keris idea in western literature, and he seemed to be of like mind to Rick:- rough edges, dirty blade, residual specks of dirty iron in the wound = poison, if the initial strike doesn't kill you, the tetanus will.

However, at least in Jawa in times past, attempts were made to make keris blades poisonous. I was told this by a couple of reliable personal informants in Solo, and I have also read about it in at least two publications. Regrettably I cannot remember where I read about it, but I do recall that the process involved preparation of a mixture of snake venom and entrails and then soaking the keris in this for a period of time.

Poisoned keris blades? Yes, but not from arsenic.

2nd August 2017, 08:53 AM	#4
Jean Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,740	I attach the pic of a similar kris, the blade was cleaned and lightly treated with warangan in Solo, it has no apparent pamor pattern so the color is dark grey. Regards Attached Images

1st August 2017, 02:55 PM	#2
oracle_2010 Member Join Date: Jan 2017 Posts: 6	Thank you so much for the explanation, it's really giving me more knowledge. By the way, if you see the photo of the keris, the middle to the tip ("the blackened part") have more porous texture compared to the ganja to the middle part of the blade. And also I havent tried it's reaction upon exposure to blood. Maybe it's worth the try.. 🤔

2nd August 2017, 03:24 PM	#5
oracle_2010 Member Join Date: Jan 2017 Posts: 6	I thought that it may affect the clotting time of blood. Maybe simple blood clotting test could be done.. and clean it with lime juice afterwards? To check if the blackened part of the blade may really affect the color and clotting time of blood. But I'm not sure whether it could be completely cleaned from the blade or not, that's why I'm still hesitating. By the way, the kris is obtained in Pagaralam, South Sumatra. Not from other province

2nd August 2017, 06:50 PM	#6
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,336	Clotting time has more to do with the platelet count of the person being stabbed than the keris. Having said that the larger the wound the more bleeding that will take place. I think we're wandering a bit from the purpose of this forum to off-topic territory here.

2nd August 2017, 11:04 PM	#7
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,992	I agree with the previous comments posted to this thread. About ten years ago, an Australian lady named Georgia Harvey researched the the matter of residual arsenic on keris blades. Her paper can be downloaded from here:- https://aiccm.org.au/aiccm-publicati...-103-june-2007 go to the download of the journal, the paper begins on P.19, it is able to be copied. Further on poisoned blades. I think it was Gardner who first floated the poisoned keris idea in western literature, and he seemed to be of like mind to Rick:- rough edges, dirty blade, residual specks of dirty iron in the wound = poison, if the initial strike doesn't kill you, the tetanus will. However, at least in Jawa in times past, attempts were made to make keris blades poisonous. I was told this by a couple of reliable personal informants in Solo, and I have also read about it in at least two publications. Regrettably I cannot remember where I read about it, but I do recall that the process involved preparation of a mixture of snake venom and entrails and then soaking the keris in this for a period of time. Poisoned keris blades? Yes, but not from arsenic.