Balinese Barong Handle

Battara · 22nd July 2017, 05:21 PM

Alan, I think you make some great points and I am now inclined toward your arguments. You are correct in the motif being a common guardian. I have seen this in different Buddhist temples around the whole area.

Gustav · 23rd July 2017, 12:17 AM

Now, with some delay we see another, similar hilt, in post #9. Seeing this hilt, I never would come to the idea the model for it would have been a picture of a Kastane pommel. It's something completely different - stylistically, and my analysis was only a stylistic one.

We have had a huge and in many aspects quite interesting and entertaining thread on our Forum (and a related entry in Wikipedia, which have seen many labour pains) about what the Kastane pommel depicts. I have not the slightest interest to step again in those waters. Yes, I also am acquainted with SEA temple guardians from books about SEA art and architecture since my childhood. I surely wasn'nt there, when the hilt from #1 was carved, yet it's absolutely obvious that the carver's model was a picture of a Ceylonese Kastane pommel. So a second attempt to be more clear:

Srilankan Simha (සිංහ) on top, Madurese motif in the middle, Balinese selut, carwed in wood below.

A quite eclectic piece.

Yes, and the carving quality is quite inconsistent.

A. G. Maisey · 23rd July 2017, 01:54 AM

What has appeared above as Post#13 was intended to be added to my original comment, which has now disappeared.

Sorry, but I've already used too much time on this.

I'm out.

EDIT

Thanks Gustav, I just threw "kastane": into the search function and it is clear there is a lot of discussion on it, I do not have time to look at this, if I was interested I would, but I'm not interested in things that use a lot of time and do not contribute towards achievement of current objectives.

My apologies for my audit world view.

David · 24th July 2017, 03:17 AM

Personally i find discussion on this particular forum about the origins of the kastane hilt not only a great waste of time, but completely off topic for this forum.
Again, somewhat nicely carved, but completely non-traditional art carvings that have nothing to do with Balinese keris culture. If this is what you like to collect Alexish, so be it. But i personally do not see any further discussion of these hilts at all pertinent to what we do here on the Keris Warung Kopi forum.

alexish · 24th July 2017, 04:37 AM

My apologies. I initially thought that this particular hilt was inspired by the Barong that was connected to Balinese culture. I did not know of the possibility of it being inspired by the Kastane sword of Ceylon, until forum members brought up this topic. Please forgive my ignorance.

David · 24th July 2017, 03:24 PM

Alexish, no apologies are necessary. It makes perfect sense for you to have posted this hilt here. It is, after all, created and presented as a keris hilt and is indeed perfectly on topic for discussion on this forum. However, this discussion did seem to become sidetracked with debate over the origins of the kastane hilt from which it is derived and specific of a culture well outside the keris cultures we generally discuss which i do believe is rather off-topic for out discussions here.

24th July 2017, 04:37 AM	#5
alexish Member Join Date: Jun 2017 Posts: 127	Apologies My apologies. I initially thought that this particular hilt was inspired by the Barong that was connected to Balinese culture. I did not know of the possibility of it being inspired by the Kastane sword of Ceylon, until forum members brought up this topic. Please forgive my ignorance.

22nd July 2017, 05:21 PM	#1
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,310	Alan, I think you make some great points and I am now inclined toward your arguments. You are correct in the motif being a common guardian. I have seen this in different Buddhist temples around the whole area.

23rd July 2017, 12:17 AM	#2
Gustav Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,295	Now, with some delay we see another, similar hilt, in post #9. Seeing this hilt, I never would come to the idea the model for it would have been a picture of a Kastane pommel. It's something completely different - stylistically, and my analysis was only a stylistic one. We have had a huge and in many aspects quite interesting and entertaining thread on our Forum (and a related entry in Wikipedia, which have seen many labour pains) about what the Kastane pommel depicts. I have not the slightest interest to step again in those waters. Yes, I also am acquainted with SEA temple guardians from books about SEA art and architecture since my childhood. I surely wasn'nt there, when the hilt from #1 was carved, yet it's absolutely obvious that the carver's model was a picture of a Ceylonese Kastane pommel. So a second attempt to be more clear: Srilankan Simha (සිංහ) on top, Madurese motif in the middle, Balinese selut, carwed in wood below. A quite eclectic piece. Yes, and the carving quality is quite inconsistent.

23rd July 2017, 01:54 AM	#3
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,048	What has appeared above as Post#13 was intended to be added to my original comment, which has now disappeared. Sorry, but I've already used too much time on this. I'm out. EDIT Thanks Gustav, I just threw "kastane": into the search function and it is clear there is a lot of discussion on it, I do not have time to look at this, if I was interested I would, but I'm not interested in things that use a lot of time and do not contribute towards achievement of current objectives. My apologies for my audit world view.

24th July 2017, 03:17 AM	#4
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,229	Personally i find discussion on this particular forum about the origins of the kastane hilt not only a great waste of time, but completely off topic for this forum. Again, somewhat nicely carved, but completely non-traditional art carvings that have nothing to do with Balinese keris culture. If this is what you like to collect Alexish, so be it. But i personally do not see any further discussion of these hilts at all pertinent to what we do here on the Keris Warung Kopi forum.

24th July 2017, 03:24 PM	#6
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,229	Alexish, no apologies are necessary. It makes perfect sense for you to have posted this hilt here. It is, after all, created and presented as a keris hilt and is indeed perfectly on topic for discussion on this forum. However, this discussion did seem to become sidetracked with debate over the origins of the kastane hilt from which it is derived and specific of a culture well outside the keris cultures we generally discuss which i do believe is rather off-topic for out discussions here.