Swords in Art -- what is this?

[ALEX]

Please see the below link - post 12, image 4.
This is early shamshir-like blade form, later seen on Russian and Caucasian swords. There are several in Hermitage and Topkapi collections.

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ight=hermitage

[DaveA]

The blade in the picture is recurved. I don't see that among the examples in your linked photo.

More info: this painting is exhibited alongside 16th century icons.

[ALEX]

In the link, scroll down to post number 12, 4th image. Similarly shaped recurved blade. The painting is a bit stylized but the curve matches. 16th Century also matches this blade type period.

[DaveA]

Originally Posted by ALEX

In the link, scroll down to post number 12, 4th image. Similarly shaped recurved blade. The painting is a bit stylized but the curve matches. 16th Century also matches this blade type period.

When I refreshed the page the other pictures came up. Fabulous thread! Now I wish I had gone with my wife!

I agree, the sword in picture #4, post 14 could be a match. That sword is very interesting. Is the tip conical, as in a pesh kabz, for piercing chain mail armor?

Dave A

[ALEX]

Originally Posted by DaveA

When I refreshed the page the other pictures came up. Fabulous thread! Now I wish I had gone with my wife!

I agree, the sword in picture #4, post 14 could be a match. That sword is very interesting. Is the tip conical, as in a pesh kabz, for piercing chain mail armor?

Dave A

The earlier ones, around 15th Century, had sharp narrow tips with very shallow recurve. Unlike short Pesh Kabz of 18th-19thC they are not reinforced and not designed for armor piercing (generally, the sword is not well suited for that). Later, after 16thC the recurve got more defined as in above example.
An interesting thread where the early art is matching the early item.

[ariel]

Alex, are you referring to the old Circassian saber that Kirill Rivkin identifies as mysterious Jateh?

I am very dubious. IMHO, there is no mystery here, just a drawing inaccuracy of the artist. I vote for a simple Shamshir-like saber. The artist was no Rembrandt, that's for sure.

[ALEX]

Ariel, there are also 2 examples in the Astvatsatryan "Caucasian Arms" book, from the 15thC Russland. Their "bayonet-like" tips are not recurved as in the painting... the later example from the Hermitage seems to be later development of the form with more developed recurve... The forms of the handle and crossquard also conform to the 16thC period. I believe the author of the painting depicted the sword based on observed sample(s) of that time.
...
Here is the image of Hermitage sabre. The obviously stylized painting may refer to similar sword, notice the similarities in the blade and handle forms - almost pomeless handle, short crossguard, slight recurve to the blade. IMHO the similarities are quite evident to be an imaginative depiction.

[DaveA]

Originally Posted by ALEX

Please see the below link - post 12, image 4.
This is early shamshir-like blade form, later seen on Russian and Caucasian swords. There are several in Hermitage and Topkapi collections.

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ight=hermitage

These weapons are from the region we call the Middle East and are not nearly as old as the one depicted in the painting.