A small collection of ... what do you call these ?

kronckew · 15th July 2017, 11:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fernando

...

levar ? Pb comes from the latin 'plumbum'. Hence the 'plumber' profession.

Oh my; i will give a pint of bitter saturated with lead to each of those guys in the other football team

.

my google translator said the english noun for the metal Pb, 'lead' is 'levar' in portugese. stupid thing kept translating the word lead into a word that translated back as 'guided', as in you can lead a horse...etc. got the 'levar' bit from trying to translate lead poisoning. not too successfuly i gather. i know my periodic table by the way, and that Pb comes from the latin. it also occurs in the late roman throwing darts, plumbata, because they have a barbed steel point held to a vaned shaft of wood by a lead (plumbum again)weight cast around the join. soldiers have been throwing lead down-range for millenia (also slingers if you count slinging). they also used lead salts to 'sweeten' wine. probably not the best choice. (rome seems to have invented 'lawn darts'

)

fernando · 15th July 2017, 04:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kronckew

...my google translator said the english noun for the metal Pb, 'lead' is 'levar' in portugese. stupid thing kept translating the word lead into a word that translated back as 'guided', as in you can lead a horse...etc. got the 'levar' bit from trying to translate lead poisoning. not too successfuly i gather. i know my periodic table by the way, and that Pb comes from the latin...

Traduttore, traditore...
It looks as if the term lead is a multi meaning term; lead as for pista=track, lead as for levar=take (carry) something somewhere, lead as for guiding=leading the way, lead as for lead=leader=command and lead as for chumbo=metal (plumbum).

Quote:

Originally Posted by kronckew

... they also used lead salts to 'sweeten' wine. probably not the best choice...

This somehow reminds me my time in the army, where they were said to use salt in the morning coffe, to avoid having to use much sugar to sweeten it, a more expensive stuff !!

A. G. Maisey · 16th July 2017, 11:42 PM

Yes, your logic on naming sounds correct to me Fernando.

The push-button mechanism as "clutch-pencil" I'm pretty certain of because I have used one in drawing flowcharts during much of my life. One could say it is one of my tools of trade.

kronckew · 17th July 2017, 09:12 AM

as an marine engineer from the USA, i went thru a couple semesters worth of drafting classes at the SUNY Maritime College. i also spent a couple years approving (and correcting) small passenger vessel construction drawings for the US Coast Guard before leaving and going into petrochemical plant construction management, where we also worked extensively with drawings, blueprints, piping isos, sketches. we always called them, if referring to them other than just 'pencils', as we used a lot of wooden ones, as 'mechanical' or 'mechanical drafting' pencils when ordering them. british usages vary tho. i gather from the ref. below that this still is true. i note in google.co.uk 'shopping' search they are listed as either 'mechanical' or occasionally as 'clutch' pencils. the ones listed as 'clutch' seem to use aifferent dia. leads. and are sometimes mentioned as 'artistic' drawing pencils. clutch pencils allow the lead to drop by gravity when you push the button at the top to extend out the tip, propelling ones grip and push it out a bit. both are 'mechanical'.

see also https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-di...hanical-pencil

the ones designed for extensive use and the varying diameter 'leads' (actually graphite composites) required for drafting or artwork and 'regular ones like we used in schools and light business notations had better ergonomics, were sturdier, usually a bit longer too as they did not need to be carried in a shirt pocket.

whatever you call them, they are still pencils.

anecdote: the myth of the fischer space pen costing millions to develop for writing in zero gravity while the russians just used a pencil is untrue. bits of broken and conductive graphite floating around the delicate electronics would have led (another lead homophone - pun intended) to disaster. they bought and used fischer pens too.

the use of the mundane pencil remains on the increase as it is cheap, and correctable by erasure, the other ink based devices less so. the simple wood exterior pencil still is made and sold in it's 15-20 billions annually, as are their mechanical brothers in somewhat lesser numbers.

a parting factoid:

fernando · 17th July 2017, 05:07 PM

My time in the army had its operational period, although nothing at all related with pencils but, instead, needles, syringes and morphine ampoules; go figure why they sent me to paramedics.
This is one of the cases where names of things between different cultures are of an idiomatic basis and not of strict translation. We call a linear pencil a lápis; from the Latin lapis (nominative), «pedra» (rock/stone) by the Italian lapis. What would be for us a mechanical pencil would be a lapiseira, an object of tubular or prismatic shape, made of metal or plastic, where a piece of lápis is adapted ...
For the contents inside the common pencil we use the term craião, the same used to call a drawing or a art work made with the same naked graphite. I think (think) this is a galicism, from the french crayon.
For the load (shaft) of lapiseiras we use the term mina, from the celtic mina «mineral», by the French mine.
I remember in my youth lapiseiras were a selective accessory, only used by professionals and design students. A famous mark for quality was Swiss "Caran d'Ache".
Attached a picture of an old small case of tubes with colour minas, from my miscellania collection.

.

asomotif · 20th July 2017, 08:15 PM

VULPOTLOOD..... in dutch

kronckew · 20th July 2017, 08:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by asomotif

VULPOTLOOD..... in dutch

also known as a stifthouder or mechanisch potlood.

isn't google translate and wiki wonderful

Druckbleistift or Fallminenstift in german.
and so forth...only about 6500 languages to go...

17th July 2017, 09:12 AM	#4
kronckew Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Room 101, Glos. UK Posts: 4,238	as an marine engineer from the USA, i went thru a couple semesters worth of drafting classes at the SUNY Maritime College. i also spent a couple years approving (and correcting) small passenger vessel construction drawings for the US Coast Guard before leaving and going into petrochemical plant construction management, where we also worked extensively with drawings, blueprints, piping isos, sketches. we always called them, if referring to them other than just 'pencils', as we used a lot of wooden ones, as 'mechanical' or 'mechanical drafting' pencils when ordering them. british usages vary tho. i gather from the ref. below that this still is true. i note in google.co.uk 'shopping' search they are listed as either 'mechanical' or occasionally as 'clutch' pencils. the ones listed as 'clutch' seem to use aifferent dia. leads. and are sometimes mentioned as 'artistic' drawing pencils. clutch pencils allow the lead to drop by gravity when you push the button at the top to extend out the tip, propelling ones grip and push it out a bit. both are 'mechanical'. see also https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-di...hanical-pencil the ones designed for extensive use and the varying diameter 'leads' (actually graphite composites) required for drafting or artwork and 'regular ones like we used in schools and light business notations had better ergonomics, were sturdier, usually a bit longer too as they did not need to be carried in a shirt pocket. whatever you call them, they are still pencils. anecdote: the myth of the fischer space pen costing millions to develop for writing in zero gravity while the russians just used a pencil is untrue. bits of broken and conductive graphite floating around the delicate electronics would have led (another lead homophone - pun intended) to disaster. they bought and used fischer pens too. the use of the mundane pencil remains on the increase as it is cheap, and correctable by erasure, the other ink based devices less so. the simple wood exterior pencil still is made and sold in it's 15-20 billions annually, as are their mechanical brothers in somewhat lesser numbers. a parting factoid: Attached Images Last edited by kronckew; 17th July 2017 at 09:59 AM.

17th July 2017, 05:07 PM	#5
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	My time in the army had its operational period, although nothing at all related with pencils but, instead, needles, syringes and morphine ampoules; go figure why they sent me to paramedics. This is one of the cases where names of things between different cultures are of an idiomatic basis and not of strict translation. We call a linear pencil a lápis; from the Latin lapis (nominative), «pedra» (rock/stone) by the Italian lapis. What would be for us a mechanical pencil would be a lapiseira, an object of tubular or prismatic shape, made of metal or plastic, where a piece of lápis is adapted ... For the contents inside the common pencil we use the term craião, the same used to call a drawing or a art work made with the same naked graphite. I think (think) this is a galicism, from the french crayon. For the load (shaft) of lapiseiras we use the term mina, from the celtic mina «mineral», by the French mine. I remember in my youth lapiseiras were a selective accessory, only used by professionals and design students. A famous mark for quality was Swiss "Caran d'Ache". Attached a picture of an old small case of tubes with colour minas, from my miscellania collection. . Attached Images

16th July 2017, 11:42 PM	#3
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,048	Yes, your logic on naming sounds correct to me Fernando. The push-button mechanism as "clutch-pencil" I'm pretty certain of because I have used one in drawing flowcharts during much of my life. One could say it is one of my tools of trade.

20th July 2017, 08:15 PM	#6
asomotif Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 2,235	VULPOTLOOD..... in dutch