An amazing pirate collection!

fernando · 24th June 2017, 11:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by M ELEY

...Lantaka, Portuguese petrarro? ...

Portuguese ? maybe not; we made them, they made them ... you never know, if not marked. But certainly not a 'petriero', the Italian term for 'pedreiro', a term used for earlier guns that shot stone projectiles; sorry being a brainpicker

.

Quote:

Originally Posted by M ELEY

... No, 'Nando, that isn't a multi-barrel handgunne. It's just an antique curling iron! ...

A curling iron ?

; can you elaborate ? The shape is so similar (to my eyes) to that in picture #12 ...

Quote:

Originally Posted by M ELEY

...Thought you might like some of his swivels and iron barrel guns...

Oh, i like several things in there; the cannons, the barrels, the shackles ... you name it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by M ELEY

In particular that long 6 sided barrel standing upright in pic #13. What do you think? A handgunne or simply a barrel from a large musketoon?...

Good question. Easier to identify if pictured in different angle/s. Maybe something in between ... like an haquebut barrel ...

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M ELEY · 24th June 2017, 12:19 PM

Ha ha! Got you, my friend! I was just kidding about that multi-barrel handgunne. You were correct in identifying it and I was just having some fun.
Petriero, eh? I don't know my cannons so well.

So what are your thoughts on that ivory handled dagger with wedge shaped blade? I was thinking Corsican or Venetian, like the vindetta daggers.

fernando · 24th June 2017, 02:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by M ELEY

...Ha ha! Got you, my friend! I was just kidding about that multi-barrel handgunne. You were correct in identifying it and I was just having some fun...

My turn next time

.

Quote:

Originally Posted by M ELEY

...So what are your thoughts on that ivory handled dagger with wedge shaped blade? I was thinking Corsican or Venetian, like the vindetta daggers.

I wouldn't know Mark, but as i see it, it could even be an old sailor's knife; a senior sailor, judging by the handle ... which could be bone and not ivory, anyhow !

broadaxe · 24th June 2017, 07:21 PM

That small dagger/knife is a generic west-Mediterranean dirk, carried by both sailors and land people along the shores of Spain, France, Italy and the islands nearby.
The two objects in the 1st photo are not sextants but its direct forefather, the octant (with apparently original cases, very cool!).

M ELEY · 25th June 2017, 05:22 AM

Opps! So you are right, Broadaxe! Octants they are. Thanks for the dagger info. Fernando and you both astutely identified it and makes sense it would be in his collection. Thought you might like the pics.

Now...where's Jim?

Rick · 25th June 2017, 04:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fernando

Portuguese ? maybe not; we made them, they made them ... you never know, if not marked. But certainly not a 'petriero', the Italian term for 'pedreiro', a term used for earlier guns that shot stone projectiles; sorry being a brainpicker

.

A curling iron ?

; can you elaborate ? The shape is so similar (to my eyes) to that in picture #12 ...

Oh, i like several things in there; the cannons, the barrels, the shackles ... you name it.

Good question. Easier to identify if pictured in different angle/s. Maybe something in between ... like an haquebut barrel ...

.

That 3 barreled item may be out of place.
A antique dealer friend bought a half dozen of those at the Brimfield flea market 2 years ago.

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ht=hand+cannon

fernando · 25th June 2017, 07:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick

That 3 barreled item may be out of place.
A antique dealer friend bought a half dozen of those at the Brimfield flea market 2 years ago.

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ht=hand+cannon

I wasn't registering such an inconsistency, Rick. Apparently its owner sailed the China seas; might have bought a few in a Macau ... flea market

.

M ELEY · 26th June 2017, 01:38 AM

Nice old chest, Norman! The perfect coffer for your treasure trove!

fernando · 26th June 2017, 12:45 PM

Very nice ark, Norman ... and promising contents

.
No doubt it would be worth the double, if the lining with the period handwritten documents was all still there

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Jim McDougall · 26th June 2017, 08:29 PM

Ahoy Cap'n Mark and fellows of the Brotherhood!!! Its great to see everyone gathered here on deck!
This is a breathtaking assemblage of piratical stuff!!!!and I have looked in numbers of times, unable to even find words or focus enough to compose anything lucid.
So my apologies for being late, with my only explanation as the good ship lollipop (aka bookmobile) has been careened here in the port of Albacrocko for much needed repairs.
Looking at these makes me desperately want to re chart my course to St. Augustine and N.C.!!!!

It is always fascinating to watch you guys exchange such knowledge and detail on all of these things, and while I cannot add much to the firearms and ordnance, I wanted to at least throw in a few shots on some of the other items. While naturally always obsessed with the swords, I can only note how magnificently untouched and well represented these are here...great assembly of the shell guard sabres....which were as I have understood termed colloquially by the pirates, a 'shell' rather than the term cutlass.

On the small dagger, Broadaxe is spot on in this being a Mediterranean dirk, used collectively for these daggers in nautical use by sailors in and from the regions throughout ports there. With these daggers it is hard to distinguish specific identity to region in many cases, so the broader identification is usually better than the much romanticized 'Corsican vendetta' (which it could very well be).
In any case, the 'Mediterranean dirk, in another interesting and much romanticized incarnation, was actually the ancestor of the famed 'Bowie' knife, which is hard to believe when seeing the comparison to this much smaller knife.

I was intrigued by the multi-spiked item in post #5 (which looks like a Mercedes logo in this image). This is as noted , a 'caltrap' (I found interesting detail in "Brevertons Nautical Curiosities" , Terry Breverton, 2013).
Apparently these 'thistle' like devices were fashioned from scrap iron, and into four sharpened spikes. Sailors often went barefoot on deck to avoid slipping, so these devious things were devastatingly effective when strewn out before boarding. The term 'caltrip' derives etymologically from Latin and Old English words such as 'calketrippe' (OE= any plant which tended to catch feet).

The pragmatic 'belaying' pin, was of course to secure rigging and was emplaced in pin rails along the deck sides, however, these very hard wood pins quickly became a 'weapon of opportunity' used to severely club a victim.

Absolutely magnificent collection, and Mark, thank you for sharing it with us and extend deep gratitude to Steve Bunker!!!! a hearty extra ration of grog to him!!!

Norman McCormick · 26th June 2017, 09:13 PM

Hi Mark and Fernando,
Although the contents mostly date to the 18thC the coffer itself by the style of construction, locks and hinges etc sits very comfortably in the 17thc, right in the thick of the buccaneering days. It's a shame the document lining is mostly gone as it might have made some fascinating reading, a treasure map!!!! or maybe not

My Regards to you Both,
Norman.

24th June 2017, 12:19 PM	#2
M ELEY Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: NC, U.S.A. Posts: 2,204	Ha ha! Got you, my friend! I was just kidding about that multi-barrel handgunne. You were correct in identifying it and I was just having some fun. Petriero, eh? I don't know my cannons so well. So what are your thoughts on that ivory handled dagger with wedge shaped blade? I was thinking Corsican or Venetian, like the vindetta daggers.

24th June 2017, 07:21 PM	#4
broadaxe Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 334	That small dagger/knife is a generic west-Mediterranean dirk, carried by both sailors and land people along the shores of Spain, France, Italy and the islands nearby. The two objects in the 1st photo are not sextants but its direct forefather, the octant (with apparently original cases, very cool!).

25th June 2017, 05:22 AM	#5
M ELEY Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: NC, U.S.A. Posts: 2,204	Opps! So you are right, Broadaxe! Octants they are. Thanks for the dagger info. Fernando and you both astutely identified it and makes sense it would be in his collection. Thought you might like the pics. Now...where's Jim?

26th June 2017, 01:38 AM	#8
M ELEY Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: NC, U.S.A. Posts: 2,204	Nice old chest, Norman! The perfect coffer for your treasure trove!

26th June 2017, 12:45 PM	#9
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	Very nice ark, Norman ... and promising contents . No doubt it would be worth the double, if the lining with the period handwritten documents was all still there .

26th June 2017, 08:29 PM	#10
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,667	Ahoy Cap'n Mark and fellows of the Brotherhood!!! Its great to see everyone gathered here on deck! This is a breathtaking assemblage of piratical stuff!!!!and I have looked in numbers of times, unable to even find words or focus enough to compose anything lucid. So my apologies for being late, with my only explanation as the good ship lollipop (aka bookmobile) has been careened here in the port of Albacrocko for much needed repairs. Looking at these makes me desperately want to re chart my course to St. Augustine and N.C.!!!! It is always fascinating to watch you guys exchange such knowledge and detail on all of these things, and while I cannot add much to the firearms and ordnance, I wanted to at least throw in a few shots on some of the other items. While naturally always obsessed with the swords, I can only note how magnificently untouched and well represented these are here...great assembly of the shell guard sabres....which were as I have understood termed colloquially by the pirates, a 'shell' rather than the term cutlass. On the small dagger, Broadaxe is spot on in this being a Mediterranean dirk, used collectively for these daggers in nautical use by sailors in and from the regions throughout ports there. With these daggers it is hard to distinguish specific identity to region in many cases, so the broader identification is usually better than the much romanticized 'Corsican vendetta' (which it could very well be). In any case, the 'Mediterranean dirk, in another interesting and much romanticized incarnation, was actually the ancestor of the famed 'Bowie' knife, which is hard to believe when seeing the comparison to this much smaller knife. I was intrigued by the multi-spiked item in post #5 (which looks like a Mercedes logo in this image). This is as noted , a 'caltrap' (I found interesting detail in "Brevertons Nautical Curiosities" , Terry Breverton, 2013). Apparently these 'thistle' like devices were fashioned from scrap iron, and into four sharpened spikes. Sailors often went barefoot on deck to avoid slipping, so these devious things were devastatingly effective when strewn out before boarding. The term 'caltrip' derives etymologically from Latin and Old English words such as 'calketrippe' (OE= any plant which tended to catch feet). The pragmatic 'belaying' pin, was of course to secure rigging and was emplaced in pin rails along the deck sides, however, these very hard wood pins quickly became a 'weapon of opportunity' used to severely club a victim. Absolutely magnificent collection, and Mark, thank you for sharing it with us and extend deep gratitude to Steve Bunker!!!! a hearty extra ration of grog to him!!!

26th June 2017, 09:13 PM	#11
Norman McCormick Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 1,646	Hi Mark and Fernando, Although the contents mostly date to the 18thC the coffer itself by the style of construction, locks and hinges etc sits very comfortably in the 17thc, right in the thick of the buccaneering days. It's a shame the document lining is mostly gone as it might have made some fascinating reading, a treasure map!!!! or maybe not My Regards to you Both, Norman.