Koummya for comment

[Oliver Pinchot]

Actually, it's part of the silver mark

[motan]

Hmmm. this is not going well for me. It is not the first mistake I have made in this thread. I can see the whole silver mark now. The marks in this thread are all very different and there appears to be little standartization. Can you actually interpret them?

[Kubur]

Originally Posted by motan

Hmmm. this is not going well for me. It is not the first mistake I have made in this thread. I can see the whole silver mark now. The marks in this thread are all very different and there appears to be little standartization. Can you actually interpret them?

Easy,some objects, the pistol and the powder flask are from Algeria with a different system from Morocco... Algeria was controlled by the Ottomans. Morocco has a different system...

[Jim McDougall]

Originally Posted by motan

Hmmm. this is not going well for me. It is not the first mistake I have made in this thread. I can see the whole silver mark now. The marks in this thread are all very different and there appears to be little standartization. Can you actually interpret them?

Motan, I don't think you've made any mistakes, but at least you have certain knowledge on these and have posed tangible questions. It would appear my speculations however,were indeed a mistake, and not relevant to the identification of the marking here, which remains unclear. Like you, I'd like to learn more on the koummya, whether there are regional or period forms and how to identify them, but more so, the example of the OP.

As you note, there is clearly disparity in the markings but unless I have missed something, there is still no finite answer to the markings on the example originally posted. Can they be interpreted?
Is this a date? or a combination of silver proof and date (as in some hallmarks as suggested by 1911/12)?
If a proof....is Morocco different than others such as I mentioned with Egypt , who uses 600,800,900?

[Tatyana Dianova]

As already noted, the Koumiya of the topic starter has a silver mark.
It is a silver mark from Marrakech from the 1918. Since the scabbard is oval, the visible mark is incomplete, the date should be 1337 with Arabic writing.
Several towns in Morocco has used each its own silver marks which changed over the time. In the reference book I have used (Bijoux du Maroc by Marie-Rose Rabate) there are several pages with the Moroccan silver marks.

[Oliver Pinchot]

Bravo, Tatyana!
I just bought it online, very reasonably priced.

[motan]

Hi,
I would really like to accept your answer and see this thread conclude with real explanation, but I don't see on the koummiya what you mean. I don't see a 7 anywhere or where it could be hidden, the number could either read 133 in "normal" numerals or equally as 441 in Arabic numerals (if you turn it 180 degrees). There seem to be some letters (three dots could belong to a Thaa), but they are stylized and I can't read them, or possibly, they are abstract symbols. If you say it is a Marakesh mark, then I believe it, but what about the year? In the silver marks I know, there is no year in the mark, but some code denoting the year, like a letter or letter-number combination (also in many European marks).

[Jim McDougall]

Originally Posted by Tatyana Dianova

As already noted, the Koumiya of the topic starter has a silver mark.
It is a silver mark from Marrakech from the 1918. Since the scabbard is oval, the visible mark is incomplete, the date should be 1337 with Arabic writing.
Several towns in Morocco has used each its own silver marks which changed over the time. In the reference book I have used (Bijoux du Maroc by Marie-Rose Rabate) there are several pages with the Moroccan silver marks.

At last!!!! Thank you so much Tatyana!!

[AKay]

Originally Posted by Tatyana Dianova

As already noted, the Koumiya of the topic starter has a silver mark.
It is a silver mark from Marrakech from the 1918. Since the scabbard is oval, the visible mark is incomplete, the date should be 1337 with Arabic writing.
Several towns in Morocco has used each its own silver marks which changed over the time. In the reference book I have used (Bijoux du Maroc by Marie-Rose Rabate) there are several pages with the Moroccan silver marks.

Thank you Tatyana!

It is very interesting what you said about the hallmark being from Marrakesh, i have uploaded a closeup pic from the back of the scabbard. There is clearly written in arabic "Kesh" and stylized Mara i think. It makes sense.

Would you be willing to attach a pic of the page from your book please?

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Originally Posted by Tatyana Dianova

As already noted, the Koumiya of the topic starter has a silver mark.
It is a silver mark from Marrakech from the 1918. Since the scabbard is oval, the visible mark is incomplete, the date should be 1337 with Arabic writing.
Several towns in Morocco has used each its own silver marks which changed over the time. In the reference book I have used (Bijoux du Maroc by Marie-Rose Rabate) there are several pages with the Moroccan silver marks.

Reference;
A. http://www.vikingsword.com/ethsword/koummya/index.html
B. http://nimcha.fr/koummya.htm

Well spotted Tatyana Dianova~ I must get that book... Quite normal for silver marks to be either missing one digit or a digit rubbed out in polishing...or an unclear strike caused by in this case an oval scabbard.

I found it a fascinating but at times somewhat weird: It is entirely normal in Morocco to be asked the same thing in Arabic and French in the same sentence "Kayf Haalak, quesque tu fait, tu va bien? "

In addition I have to say that it is a wonderful place and probably the closest to its past than any other Arabic country...What I mean is the Talismanic and superstitious aspect of rural life is very much apparent with Marabouts (Magic Men) wandering about openly and a real close belief in an ancient occult-like system very much still part of Moroccan rural society.

I had been playing with the idea that this could have been a mark applied by a French artesan but I have given up on that ... For Moroccan work we need an in country member dedicated to wandering the bazaars cataloging the wonderful artefacts ... I'm up for that !!! ..

It is great to see impressive support and back up from Oliver and Jim and others ...

Regards.
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[Tatyana Dianova]

It looks like the back of scabbard has the lower part of the silver stamp!
The silver marks are in the second volume of the series: Bijoux du Maroc Du Haut Atlas a la Mediterranee, and this book is difficult to find and it is very expensive. The smart priced one is a second edition of the first volume Bijoux du Maroc Du Haut Atlas à la vallée du Draa. My first edition of this book has no silver marks in it.
Here is the picture:

[AKay]

Thank you Tatyana,

You have nailed it!
Thanks for uploading the pic!!

Thanks to all for the info and replys and kind words.