Questions about rebar

CSinTX · 3rd June 2017, 04:57 PM

Can you post some pictures? Sometimes in the US we use rebar to make hoopnet and trotline drags to locate our fishing gear that's been hidden out of sight of others. They look like grappling hooks and often get lost to tree roots, rocks, etc. It would be easy to see how one that was lost to a river, recovered a time later, and cleaned could look really old.

M ELEY · 6th June 2017, 11:29 PM

Thanks, gents, for your fast replies! I realize that I probably should have posted my question under 'ethno items'...sorry! Let me post a pic and you'll see what I'm talking about.

fernando · 7th June 2017, 10:27 AM

More like Miscellania section, i'd say, Mark.
Here we go

.

M ELEY · 7th June 2017, 04:13 PM

Thanks, Fernando-

Still trying to resize the pics...

M ELEY · 7th June 2017, 07:11 PM

Another...

M ELEY · 7th June 2017, 07:14 PM

More...

This whole piece, although partially cast (?) and of rebar, appears to be blacksmith made, with hammer tooling, primitive construction. Note to top securing ring. This piece was reportedly found at the coast of North Carolina, (my state) the 'Graveyard of the Atlantic'.

M ELEY · 7th June 2017, 07:37 PM

There were essentially three different types of grapples or grappling irons found on ships. Most were the small, dainty ones used to retrieve a lost bucket or to haul over small items from another ship or shore. A slightly larger version (the French called this one a 'grapin a main'), while the largest, such as my example, was far too large and heavy to be thrown. This example had two uses, first as an anchor in smaller craft or as a support anchor to assist the main anchor. Secondly, they were used to secure two ships together during a boarding action. They would be hung from the tips of the mast spars so that as the they came alongside their enemies, the giant grapples would catch their enemies sails/ropes and snare them. Info on these can be found in 'French Warship Crews 1789-1805' - T. Crowley, Osprey Publishing, pg.63, also plate H, #7. See also 'Pirate'- R. Platt, DK Eyewitness Books, pg 7 for an excellent example.

My example stands 40" tall, about 18" wide where the spikes flare out, has the said ribbing to the main body of the hook and appears to be partially cast. Where so much confusion comes in, even with the literature, is in trying to find out the facts. Most people associate cast iron with late 19th, yet cast metal certainly dates much earlier. Rebar is also associated with modern construction/late 19th, yet rebar has existed since the 1600's. Here we have this giant grapple, nice blackened brown patina of an early construction (spines end in spikes on two of them, flattened flukes on the other two).

I'm just trying to age this thing! If early 19th, as I suspect, it could easily have been used for boarding. If more mid- to late 19th, probably just an anchor.

Pics of the spikes...

3rd June 2017, 04:57 PM	#1
CSinTX Member Join Date: Apr 2014 Posts: 235	Can you post some pictures? Sometimes in the US we use rebar to make hoopnet and trotline drags to locate our fishing gear that's been hidden out of sight of others. They look like grappling hooks and often get lost to tree roots, rocks, etc. It would be easy to see how one that was lost to a river, recovered a time later, and cleaned could look really old. Attached Images

6th June 2017, 11:29 PM	#2
M ELEY Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: NC, U.S.A. Posts: 2,205	Rebar question Thanks, gents, for your fast replies! I realize that I probably should have posted my question under 'ethno items'...sorry! Let me post a pic and you'll see what I'm talking about.

7th June 2017, 04:13 PM	#4
M ELEY Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: NC, U.S.A. Posts: 2,205	Thanks, Fernando- Still trying to resize the pics... Attached Images Last edited by M ELEY; 7th June 2017 at 07:08 PM.

7th June 2017, 07:11 PM	#5
M ELEY Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: NC, U.S.A. Posts: 2,205	Another... Attached Images

7th June 2017, 07:14 PM	#6
M ELEY Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: NC, U.S.A. Posts: 2,205	More... This whole piece, although partially cast (?) and of rebar, appears to be blacksmith made, with hammer tooling, primitive construction. Note to top securing ring. This piece was reportedly found at the coast of North Carolina, (my state) the 'Graveyard of the Atlantic'. Attached Images Last edited by M ELEY; 7th June 2017 at 07:42 PM.

7th June 2017, 10:27 AM	#3
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	More like Miscellania section, i'd say, Mark. Here we go .

7th June 2017, 07:37 PM	#7
M ELEY Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: NC, U.S.A. Posts: 2,205	There were essentially three different types of grapples or grappling irons found on ships. Most were the small, dainty ones used to retrieve a lost bucket or to haul over small items from another ship or shore. A slightly larger version (the French called this one a 'grapin a main'), while the largest, such as my example, was far too large and heavy to be thrown. This example had two uses, first as an anchor in smaller craft or as a support anchor to assist the main anchor. Secondly, they were used to secure two ships together during a boarding action. They would be hung from the tips of the mast spars so that as the they came alongside their enemies, the giant grapples would catch their enemies sails/ropes and snare them. Info on these can be found in 'French Warship Crews 1789-1805' - T. Crowley, Osprey Publishing, pg.63, also plate H, #7. See also 'Pirate'- R. Platt, DK Eyewitness Books, pg 7 for an excellent example. My example stands 40" tall, about 18" wide where the spikes flare out, has the said ribbing to the main body of the hook and appears to be partially cast. Where so much confusion comes in, even with the literature, is in trying to find out the facts. Most people associate cast iron with late 19th, yet cast metal certainly dates much earlier. Rebar is also associated with modern construction/late 19th, yet rebar has existed since the 1600's. Here we have this giant grapple, nice blackened brown patina of an early construction (spines end in spikes on two of them, flattened flukes on the other two). I'm just trying to age this thing! If early 19th, as I suspect, it could easily have been used for boarding. If more mid- to late 19th, probably just an anchor. Pics of the spikes... Attached Images