Old Tajung Keris(es?)

rasdan · 28th May 2017, 12:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kai

Hello Nik,

Just to clarify, treming was just a typo, isn't it? BTW, what does teming mean?

A pendokok seems to work well with a round buah pinang which is quite rare with tajong hilts; would you agree that tajong with slender/conical buah pinang look better with teming?

The splendid Basel tajong hilt shown above does have a double construction of a simple cup (a bit different from the usual teming) and, apparently, a separate de luxe pendokok from gold... Any other antique high-end examples extant that exhibit complex hilt fittings?

Regards,
Kai

Kai, teming/temi is a variation of pronounciation spoken by East Coast Malaysian. The correct word in standardised Bahasa Malaysia and Bahasa Indonesia is Temin. Which means some sort of a metal sleeve to reinforce hilts or spear shafts. Below are the entry for temin in both in Bahasa Malaysia and Indonesia.

http://prpm.dbp.gov.my/Cari1?keyword=temin

http://kbbi.web.id/temin

To digress a bit. Recently collectors in Malaysia have started using the word "akuk" or "akut" (which does not appear in the dictionary) to refer to belalai gajah. I think this word is also pronounced according to the Malaysian east coast dialect.

In my opinion the word is actually "angkup" (which is listed in the dictionary) where it refers to the shape of the belalai gajah that resembles a small picker. This instrument is however, modern. Probably in old Malay the word angkup was used to describe something that is shaped like a picker, or it means "closed" - "bertangkup" in Malay. Below is a picture of an angkup.

kai · 30th May 2017, 12:13 AM

Hello Rasdan,

Thanks, that helps!

Quote:

teming/temi is a variation of pronounciation spoken by East Coast Malaysian. The correct word in standardised Bahasa Malaysia and Bahasa Indonesia is Temin. Which means some sort of a metal sleeve to reinforce hilts or spear shafts.

So basically we can just translate this into English as ferrule since it has no specialized connotations and concentrates on function rather than stylistic details.

Regards,
Kai

rasdan · 30th May 2017, 02:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kai

Hello Rasdan,

Thanks, that helps!

So basically we can just translate this into English as ferrule since it has no specialized connotations and concentrates on function rather than stylistic details.

Regards,
Kai

You're welcome Kai. Yes, the direct translation is ferrule.

Mickey the Finn · 19th February 2020, 10:55 AM

@ rasdan :This is quite interesting, and enlightening. Outside and inside calipers. I adjusted a couple to more secure positions upon the wood screws on which they hung on the wall at work just this morning. My apologies for "thread necromancy" and, perhaps, irrelevant commentary. I was following a train of thought during the course of research, and it led me here.
Google Translator leads me to believe that "angkup randu" means something like "operator's manual for tweezers" or "hand-operated tweezers". Please don't feel obligated to reply. I'm sure the matter will sort itself out in time.

A. G. Maisey · 19th February 2020, 11:50 AM

Mickey, in Indonesian, Javanese, Old Javanese "randu" means kapok tree.

In Modern Malay, Indonesian "angkup" means tweezers, pliers.

In Modern Javanese "angkup randu" could be understood as "unopened bud of the kapok tree" > "angkup" in Javanese is an unopened bud.

I do not know what "randu" means in Modern Malay, but I have a very foggy memory that in Classical Malay it is verb that means some sort of arm action.

David · 19th February 2020, 06:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mickey the Finn

Google Translator leads me to believe that "angkup randu" means something like "operator's manual for tweezers" or "hand-operated tweezers". Please don't feel obligated to reply. I'm sure the matter will sort itself out in time.

Well, i don't mean to keep this resurrected thread alive for long (though it is nice to see these tajong once again

), but i will just say that Google Translator knows jack about Malay based languages. You will find the most ridiculous translation or words and phrases almost every time. It is near useless for understanding Bahasa Indonesian, Javanese or Malay.
Carry on!

A. G. Maisey · 19th February 2020, 08:56 PM

I think most keris people would know this,its pretty basic knowledge, but maybe some of the new boys might not, so it is worth mentioning I guess.

There is a type of Solo mendak that is named "angkup randu" because it carries the angkup randu motif, which is pretty prevalent in Central Javanese ornamentation, and is also one of the common batik motifs.

This motif is a representation of the kapok tree bud.

A. G. Maisey · 19th February 2020, 09:18 PM

The Malay meaning of "randu" was troubling me, so I looked it up in Wilkinson, published 1901, here is the dictionary entry:-

Randu. I. The action of the arm in stirring
up water or anything, when the arm is thrust
into water and worked round and round so as
to set the water in rapid motion. Randukan:
to work up or mix anything by working the
arm round and round in it; Sej, Mai., 122.

19th February 2020, 10:55 AM	#4
Mickey the Finn Member Join Date: Dec 2017 Posts: 90	Re: Angkup @ rasdan :This is quite interesting, and enlightening. Outside and inside calipers. I adjusted a couple to more secure positions upon the wood screws on which they hung on the wall at work just this morning. My apologies for "thread necromancy" and, perhaps, irrelevant commentary. I was following a train of thought during the course of research, and it led me here. Google Translator leads me to believe that "angkup randu" means something like "operator's manual for tweezers" or "hand-operated tweezers". Please don't feel obligated to reply. I'm sure the matter will sort itself out in time.

19th February 2020, 11:50 AM	#5
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,015	Mickey, in Indonesian, Javanese, Old Javanese "randu" means kapok tree. In Modern Malay, Indonesian "angkup" means tweezers, pliers. In Modern Javanese "angkup randu" could be understood as "unopened bud of the kapok tree" > "angkup" in Javanese is an unopened bud. I do not know what "randu" means in Modern Malay, but I have a very foggy memory that in Classical Malay it is verb that means some sort of arm action.

19th February 2020, 08:56 PM	#7
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,015	I think most keris people would know this,its pretty basic knowledge, but maybe some of the new boys might not, so it is worth mentioning I guess. There is a type of Solo mendak that is named "angkup randu" because it carries the angkup randu motif, which is pretty prevalent in Central Javanese ornamentation, and is also one of the common batik motifs. This motif is a representation of the kapok tree bud.

19th February 2020, 09:18 PM	#8
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,015	The Malay meaning of "randu" was troubling me, so I looked it up in Wilkinson, published 1901, here is the dictionary entry:- Randu. I. The action of the arm in stirring up water or anything, when the arm is thrust into water and worked round and round so as to set the water in rapid motion. Randukan: to work up or mix anything by working the arm round and round in it; Sej, Mai., 122.