My presentation and a new friend

Jim McDougall · 19th May 2017, 05:10 AM

Clement, welcome to our forum, and you have given us a keen opportunity to see one of the nicest examples of the 'wedding nimcha' I have yet seen!
The term for these is most misleading, as these were actually 'ceremonial' or dress accoutrements, not simply for weddings or such events.

It is unusual to see one of these 'nimcha' style hilts with a flyssa blade, and I think you are right in that this one probably dates in the latter 19th c.
The quality of the mounts and blade are remarkable.

The flyssa itself is the sword of Kabylia in these regions in Algeria (said to have been named for the Iflyssen tribe Berbers who are believed to have been early makers of these). These long, needle pointed blade swords pretty much dropped off in production toward the later years of the 19th c. and these smaller dagger type examples perhaps became worn much as the koummya it seems as there was a great deal of diffusion in the Maghrebi coastal areas.

Stone (1935, p.234) describes the flyssa as the sword of the Kabyles of Morocco. It is believed that this attribution, when Kabylia is actually in Algeria, has to do with the connection with the Malakite Rite of Islam I Morocco. The five point star (Star of Solomon) which represents the Five Pillars of Islam is interestingly represented in the mounts of this dagger. That Star is since 1915 seen on the red flag of Morocco.

Therefore, a dagger of quality in Maghrebi nimcha mounts and Moroccan influenced Star of Solomon motif with Algerian Kabyle blade.

CNK1 · 19th May 2017, 11:10 AM

Good morning,

thank's for your comments, I appreciate your help !

Happy to see that's you like this nimcha, this was a pleasure to present this one.

I join more picts of the scabbard tip.

Kubur · 19th May 2017, 05:55 PM

This is a master piece really!
Its Ottoman and from ALGERIA.
I will give you all the details later.
It's a very very nice piece.
Best,
Kubur

Jim McDougall · 19th May 2017, 06:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kubur

This is a master piece really!
Its Ottoman and from ALGERIA.
I will give you all the details later.
It's a very very nice piece.
Best,
Kubur

Excellent Kubur!!!
In research and discussions some time ago, we determined that the flyssa itself was very much key as a 'rite of passage' for Kabyle young men, whose first order of business before marriage was to attain 'his sword'.

While the flyssa of course carried all the traditional elements significant in their tribal traditions, and while not literally ever subdued by the Ottomans, the arms of the Ottomans were highly prized above the local flyssa.
Perhaps these factors might be present in the case of this most impressive example, which seems unusual to see a flyssa blade in Ottoman dress.

CNK1 · 19th May 2017, 06:45 PM

@ Kubur, I wait impatiently for all you know about this piece !

Correct me if I'm wrong but the "ottoman period" of Algeria ends during 1830's , so this nimcha could date from this period or before ?

Best regards,

Clement

Kubur · 21st May 2017, 07:45 AM

Hi Clement, Hi Jim,

Now i can answer to you.
Look at the book of Andersen Gold and coral.
Look also at the Ottoman powder flask from Algiers that I posted before.
The quality of the work is typical from the 19th c. and the Ottomans.
The quality is amazing for the hilt and the scabbard.
The blade is normal for this so-called weeding nimcha.
By the way they are the real nimcha the short swords (see Elgood).
The other nimcha from Morocco are saifs of course.
As Jim said these swords are attributed to the Kabyles in Algeria.
The quality of the work pushes me to think that your nimcha, Clement, was done in Algiers.

Best,
Kubur

CNK1 · 21st May 2017, 05:23 PM

Hello Kubur,

thank's for your help on this nimcha, a really interesting piece of history !

Do you think this one was made for someone special ? This is the only one of this "type" I've ever seen so I'm really curious to understand in which circumstance it was made.

Best regards,
Clement

Jim McDougall · 21st May 2017, 05:55 PM

Thank you Kubur for noting the Ottoman styling in this motif, and Clement, you have managed to collect a most handsome example of this type of Maghrebi weapon, in the manner of the 'wedding' type ceremonial pieces.

It is important to remember that traditional style and influences of other cultures and periods are not ceased at the demise of rule or change of power . Style and decoration are simply local preferences which may reflect many influences.
Even the Kabyle style blade may have been a gift or otherwise obtained from those people or regions, and mounted in appropriate dress to location, in this case appearing to be Algiers or that area.

19th May 2017, 05:10 AM	#1
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,299	Clement, welcome to our forum, and you have given us a keen opportunity to see one of the nicest examples of the 'wedding nimcha' I have yet seen! The term for these is most misleading, as these were actually 'ceremonial' or dress accoutrements, not simply for weddings or such events. It is unusual to see one of these 'nimcha' style hilts with a flyssa blade, and I think you are right in that this one probably dates in the latter 19th c. The quality of the mounts and blade are remarkable. The flyssa itself is the sword of Kabylia in these regions in Algeria (said to have been named for the Iflyssen tribe Berbers who are believed to have been early makers of these). These long, needle pointed blade swords pretty much dropped off in production toward the later years of the 19th c. and these smaller dagger type examples perhaps became worn much as the koummya it seems as there was a great deal of diffusion in the Maghrebi coastal areas. Stone (1935, p.234) describes the flyssa as the sword of the Kabyles of Morocco. It is believed that this attribution, when Kabylia is actually in Algeria, has to do with the connection with the Malakite Rite of Islam I Morocco. The five point star (Star of Solomon) which represents the Five Pillars of Islam is interestingly represented in the mounts of this dagger. That Star is since 1915 seen on the red flag of Morocco. Therefore, a dagger of quality in Maghrebi nimcha mounts and Moroccan influenced Star of Solomon motif with Algerian Kabyle blade. Last edited by Jim McDougall; 19th May 2017 at 05:30 AM.

19th May 2017, 11:10 AM	#2
CNK1 Member Join Date: May 2017 Location: France Posts: 43	Good morning, thank's for your comments, I appreciate your help ! Happy to see that's you like this nimcha, this was a pleasure to present this one. I join more picts of the scabbard tip. Attached Images

19th May 2017, 05:55 PM	#3
Kubur Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Posts: 2,145	This is a master piece really! Its Ottoman and from ALGERIA. I will give you all the details later. It's a very very nice piece. Best, Kubur

19th May 2017, 06:45 PM	#5
CNK1 Member Join Date: May 2017 Location: France Posts: 43	@ Kubur, I wait impatiently for all you know about this piece ! Correct me if I'm wrong but the "ottoman period" of Algeria ends during 1830's , so this nimcha could date from this period or before ? Best regards, Clement

21st May 2017, 07:45 AM	#6
Kubur Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Posts: 2,145	Hi Clement, Hi Jim, Now i can answer to you. Look at the book of Andersen Gold and coral. Look also at the Ottoman powder flask from Algiers that I posted before. The quality of the work is typical from the 19th c. and the Ottomans. The quality is amazing for the hilt and the scabbard. The blade is normal for this so-called weeding nimcha. By the way they are the real nimcha the short swords (see Elgood). The other nimcha from Morocco are saifs of course. As Jim said these swords are attributed to the Kabyles in Algeria. The quality of the work pushes me to think that your nimcha, Clement, was done in Algiers. Best, Kubur

21st May 2017, 05:23 PM	#7
CNK1 Member Join Date: May 2017 Location: France Posts: 43	Hello Kubur, thank's for your help on this nimcha, a really interesting piece of history ! Do you think this one was made for someone special ? This is the only one of this "type" I've ever seen so I'm really curious to understand in which circumstance it was made. Best regards, Clement

21st May 2017, 05:55 PM	#8
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,299	Thank you Kubur for noting the Ottoman styling in this motif, and Clement, you have managed to collect a most handsome example of this type of Maghrebi weapon, in the manner of the 'wedding' type ceremonial pieces. It is important to remember that traditional style and influences of other cultures and periods are not ceased at the demise of rule or change of power . Style and decoration are simply local preferences which may reflect many influences. Even the Kabyle style blade may have been a gift or otherwise obtained from those people or regions, and mounted in appropriate dress to location, in this case appearing to be Algiers or that area.