Planning to make a wrongko

Rick · 14th May 2017, 04:50 AM

If I might chime in, I wouldn't recommend urethane either, not mineral nor water based.

I'd still recommend shellac thinned out with grain alcohol and applied lightly and the surface made smooth between coats. Shellac, being made from insects somehow just seems to look much nicer than a spar varnish or urethane.

I think using shellac gives a better looking finish, especially with a little wax to top it off.

A. G. Maisey · 14th May 2017, 08:56 AM

I agree with you Rick.

French polish is only the application of a number of coats of shellac, the right way is to do it is with a rubber all the way, but it can be short cut by using a brush first and then finishing with a rubber.

However, for somebody who has never used shellac before, either brushed or used as french polish, it is not really all that easy to get a decent job. That's where Danish oil comes in:- its quick, its easy, with minimum care it gives a very good job, and used the way I've explained, the final appearance is just like a well preserved old wrongko.

No dispute at all that shellac is the best finish, but for a beginner it is not the easiest finish, not by a long shot.

Danish Oil and Scandinavian Oil are similar, and depending on the brand you can get different mixes in the ingredients. Some of these oils have a urethane component, some don't. I actually dislike urethanes, even for floors, on a floor I prefer tung oil, but it is virtually impossible today to get genuine tung oil, the stuff they sell as tung oil has urethanes in it, its just that it behaves like tung oil and looks like tung oil when it dries. Straight urethane I would never use for anything, but where these wood finishing products are concerned, although they might have urethane in them, they behave like a very quick drying oil, and the finish is nothing at all like any urethane that I've ever seen.

Another oil I used to use a lot was Birchwood Casey Stock Oil, it gave a really beautiful finish that looked for all the world like a top London gun finish. It dropped off the market here is Oz for a few years, and I never used it again after it became available again, mostly because I'd pretty much stopped doing high class rifle stocks by the time it appeared again. The couple of expensive stocks I did after that I did with linseed.

David · 14th May 2017, 03:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

Another oil I used to use a lot was Birchwood Casey Stock Oil, it gave a really beautiful finish that looked for all the world like a top London gun finish. It dropped off the market here is Oz for a few years, and I never used it again after it became available again, mostly because I'd pretty much stopped doing high class rifle stocks by the time it appeared again. The couple of expensive stocks I did after that I did with linseed.

I can second the Birchwood Casey Stock Oil. I've used it with great success. Frankly i haven't tried to look for it here in the States for a while so i don't know if it is still available.

David · 14th May 2017, 03:42 PM

I just checked and it does still seem to be easily available in numerous location.

Rick · 14th May 2017, 05:27 PM

Well, I will add a caveat about Danish oil; all the woodwork in my house is finished with the stuff and I do like it and can't disagree with Alan about ease of finish.
But..
This is very important: after you have used this product please dispose of any rags soaked in it in a bucket of water, for they may well combust if cautions are not taken.

A. G. Maisey · 14th May 2017, 10:40 PM

Yeah, you're dead right on the rags Rick. They have warnings all over the tins of the stuff that I use. But that's only a pretty recent thing. I've used all sorts of wood finishing products since I was in my early teens, my father used the stuff before me --- it was his job --- he never mentioned that there was a danger from those used rags, and I never knew about the inherent danger until quite recently.

David yeah, that's the stuff , easy to use, great finish. Its not a problem to get here now, when I said it dropped out of sight for a while I was talking ancient history, I think it maybe about 40 years ago that I was not able to get it. Prior to that I was buying it from a gunsmith, I think he was probably importing it himself, anyway, he died and I couldn't find another source. But these days you can buy the stuff anywhere --- well, any gunshop.

Johan van Zyl · 15th May 2017, 09:03 AM

I've done a lot of reading up on products that are available here in my neck of the woods, that conform closest to the excellent suggestions you all have been making with regard to my nearly completed Bugis wrongko project. Come Wednesday I will be browsing the hardware shops in my area to get something suitable to do the job. There's a product called Rustins Danish Oil in South Africa, and also a Woodoc product called Antique Wax. One of the specs is that it does not affect glue or joints. It also "builds up an authentic patina on the wood surface". I'll see what I can get.

I've been doing some thinking as a result of this project of mine, and I am getting ideas and notions and insights that could only have come because of my daily involvement with it. I have been truly engrossed in the task and as a consequence more things are making sense to me.

For instance, having succeeded in making a passable fit of Bugis blade to wrongko, I have gone back to my Java keris with its gambar, and I now find that it is inconceivable that that keris was made for that gambar. The fit is not as good as mine (in fact it's quite bad), which must of necessity mean they could not have been made for one another by and old-time m'ranggi. I do believe the poor fit is a dead give-away.

A further conclusion is that the Java ladrang gambar and its current gandar and pendok do not belong to one another. Recall that I wrote in a much earlier thread that I received the two kerisses with their hilts properly in place, but accompanied by a separated gambar and two gandars, one covered with a brass pendok. It was pure luck that I correctly assigned the ladrang gambar to the Java keris and attached the pendok-covered gandar to it, but in reality the difference in quality of the gambar and pendok is too great for them to be a match. (Of course in our thread discussions you all have gently indicated as much, but it comes through strongly to me now.)

I am reassured in that you all have pointed out that mismatches are common and it need not distract from the Java keris and its current dress that I own.

14th May 2017, 08:56 AM	#2
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,056	I agree with you Rick. French polish is only the application of a number of coats of shellac, the right way is to do it is with a rubber all the way, but it can be short cut by using a brush first and then finishing with a rubber. However, for somebody who has never used shellac before, either brushed or used as french polish, it is not really all that easy to get a decent job. That's where Danish oil comes in:- its quick, its easy, with minimum care it gives a very good job, and used the way I've explained, the final appearance is just like a well preserved old wrongko. No dispute at all that shellac is the best finish, but for a beginner it is not the easiest finish, not by a long shot. Danish Oil and Scandinavian Oil are similar, and depending on the brand you can get different mixes in the ingredients. Some of these oils have a urethane component, some don't. I actually dislike urethanes, even for floors, on a floor I prefer tung oil, but it is virtually impossible today to get genuine tung oil, the stuff they sell as tung oil has urethanes in it, its just that it behaves like tung oil and looks like tung oil when it dries. Straight urethane I would never use for anything, but where these wood finishing products are concerned, although they might have urethane in them, they behave like a very quick drying oil, and the finish is nothing at all like any urethane that I've ever seen. Another oil I used to use a lot was Birchwood Casey Stock Oil, it gave a really beautiful finish that looked for all the world like a top London gun finish. It dropped off the market here is Oz for a few years, and I never used it again after it became available again, mostly because I'd pretty much stopped doing high class rifle stocks by the time it appeared again. The couple of expensive stocks I did after that I did with linseed. Last edited by A. G. Maisey; 14th May 2017 at 09:15 AM.

14th May 2017, 03:42 PM	#4
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,237	I just checked and it does still seem to be easily available in numerous location. Attached Images

14th May 2017, 04:50 AM	#1
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,365	If I might chime in, I wouldn't recommend urethane either, not mineral nor water based. I'd still recommend shellac thinned out with grain alcohol and applied lightly and the surface made smooth between coats. Shellac, being made from insects somehow just seems to look much nicer than a spar varnish or urethane. I think using shellac gives a better looking finish, especially with a little wax to top it off.

14th May 2017, 05:27 PM	#5
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,365	Well, I will add a caveat about Danish oil; all the woodwork in my house is finished with the stuff and I do like it and can't disagree with Alan about ease of finish. But.. This is very important: after you have used this product please dispose of any rags soaked in it in a bucket of water, for they may well combust if cautions are not taken.

14th May 2017, 10:40 PM	#6
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,056	Yeah, you're dead right on the rags Rick. They have warnings all over the tins of the stuff that I use. But that's only a pretty recent thing. I've used all sorts of wood finishing products since I was in my early teens, my father used the stuff before me --- it was his job --- he never mentioned that there was a danger from those used rags, and I never knew about the inherent danger until quite recently. David yeah, that's the stuff , easy to use, great finish. Its not a problem to get here now, when I said it dropped out of sight for a while I was talking ancient history, I think it maybe about 40 years ago that I was not able to get it. Prior to that I was buying it from a gunsmith, I think he was probably importing it himself, anyway, he died and I couldn't find another source. But these days you can buy the stuff anywhere --- well, any gunshop.

15th May 2017, 09:03 AM	#7
Johan van Zyl Member Join Date: Sep 2016 Location: I live in Gordon's Bay, a village in the Western Cape Province in South Africa. Posts: 126	I've done a lot of reading up on products that are available here in my neck of the woods, that conform closest to the excellent suggestions you all have been making with regard to my nearly completed Bugis wrongko project. Come Wednesday I will be browsing the hardware shops in my area to get something suitable to do the job. There's a product called Rustins Danish Oil in South Africa, and also a Woodoc product called Antique Wax. One of the specs is that it does not affect glue or joints. It also "builds up an authentic patina on the wood surface". I'll see what I can get. I've been doing some thinking as a result of this project of mine, and I am getting ideas and notions and insights that could only have come because of my daily involvement with it. I have been truly engrossed in the task and as a consequence more things are making sense to me. For instance, having succeeded in making a passable fit of Bugis blade to wrongko, I have gone back to my Java keris with its gambar, and I now find that it is inconceivable that that keris was made for that gambar. The fit is not as good as mine (in fact it's quite bad), which must of necessity mean they could not have been made for one another by and old-time m'ranggi. I do believe the poor fit is a dead give-away. A further conclusion is that the Java ladrang gambar and its current gandar and pendok do not belong to one another. Recall that I wrote in a much earlier thread that I received the two kerisses with their hilts properly in place, but accompanied by a separated gambar and two gandars, one covered with a brass pendok. It was pure luck that I correctly assigned the ladrang gambar to the Java keris and attached the pendok-covered gandar to it, but in reality the difference in quality of the gambar and pendok is too great for them to be a match. (Of course in our thread discussions you all have gently indicated as much, but it comes through strongly to me now.) I am reassured in that you all have pointed out that mismatches are common and it need not distract from the Java keris and its current dress that I own.