Quick question _ sudanese kaskara

Drabant1701 · 7th May 2017, 07:38 AM

Thank you again for your time and knowledge.

I have some more information. There is actually text on both sides of the blade, I have not noticed before because it is barly visable, it appers to by similar to the one in the earlier photos I posted. There is also a star close to that text that i slightly more visable, I have added a photo of it. There is also a makers mark identical identical to the first one posted on the oposite side under the crossguard, it is a bit higher up then the first.

Iain · 7th May 2017, 06:46 PM

The star is locally engraved (rather than stamped).

I know its tempting to imagine that due to the somewhat cruder look of this blade its not an industrial product. However even prior to the industriall revolution water powered trip hammers and grinders were the norm for forges in Medieval Italy and Germany. Some are still around, at least in Northern Italy around Belluno. There was no massive effort to refine the lines, fullers etc. on these trade blades, so they do look a bit crude. However, having handled quite a few of the single fuller and triple fuller patterns from the 19th century, the difference in profile to earlier blades from the 18th, 17th is quite pronounced. The 19th century blades, particularly this Kull pattern has a very flat profile with almost no lenticular cross section. Of course when you go further back the 15th and 14th century examples which very, very occasionally crop up (at least in takouba), the difference become even more pronounced.

See the reference below. The three marks in question are noted as 1847 (72, 73, 74). This is not bad as far as kaskara blades go to be honest!

From memory I think Kull may have been listed as a retailer and could well have outsourced production to multiple forges as his name and marks appear on a wide range of blades including military sabres.

Jim McDougall · 8th May 2017, 02:18 AM

Iain, I recall our discussions several years back, and we talked about the Solingen marketing acumen, and the potential of these kinds of blades destined for North African interests. The groupings of these long venerated markings from earlier smiths and blades were often keenly appreciated by the traders at these entrepots in Africa as imbuements of power and quality (=magic).

As with most 'trade' weapons to native clientele in colonial situations, the quality was often subordinate to the typically notable quality weapons for the European markets.

As we earlier noted, the overblown Solingen industry pretty much ran into steep decline with the rather abrupt end of the Franco-Prussian war and the shops scrambled to find sources for their wares.

7th May 2017, 07:38 AM	#1
Drabant1701 Member Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: Sweden Posts: 181	Thank you again for your time and knowledge. I have some more information. There is actually text on both sides of the blade, I have not noticed before because it is barly visable, it appers to by similar to the one in the earlier photos I posted. There is also a star close to that text that i slightly more visable, I have added a photo of it. There is also a makers mark identical identical to the first one posted on the oposite side under the crossguard, it is a bit higher up then the first. Attached Images

7th May 2017, 06:46 PM	#2
Iain Member Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Olomouc Posts: 1,708	The star is locally engraved (rather than stamped). I know its tempting to imagine that due to the somewhat cruder look of this blade its not an industrial product. However even prior to the industriall revolution water powered trip hammers and grinders were the norm for forges in Medieval Italy and Germany. Some are still around, at least in Northern Italy around Belluno. There was no massive effort to refine the lines, fullers etc. on these trade blades, so they do look a bit crude. However, having handled quite a few of the single fuller and triple fuller patterns from the 19th century, the difference in profile to earlier blades from the 18th, 17th is quite pronounced. The 19th century blades, particularly this Kull pattern has a very flat profile with almost no lenticular cross section. Of course when you go further back the 15th and 14th century examples which very, very occasionally crop up (at least in takouba), the difference become even more pronounced. See the reference below. The three marks in question are noted as 1847 (72, 73, 74). This is not bad as far as kaskara blades go to be honest! From memory I think Kull may have been listed as a retailer and could well have outsourced production to multiple forges as his name and marks appear on a wide range of blades including military sabres. Attached Images

8th May 2017, 02:18 AM	#3
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,196	Iain, I recall our discussions several years back, and we talked about the Solingen marketing acumen, and the potential of these kinds of blades destined for North African interests. The groupings of these long venerated markings from earlier smiths and blades were often keenly appreciated by the traders at these entrepots in Africa as imbuements of power and quality (=magic). As with most 'trade' weapons to native clientele in colonial situations, the quality was often subordinate to the typically notable quality weapons for the European markets. As we earlier noted, the overblown Solingen industry pretty much ran into steep decline with the rather abrupt end of the Franco-Prussian war and the shops scrambled to find sources for their wares.