chilanum/ kanjar daggers Fakes ? Dates ?

BANDOOK · 26th April 2017, 08:44 AM

Please do not touch them,they are reproductions from Jodhpur ,Rajasthan
I have seen many appearing in auctions being sold as antiques
best regards
rajesh

motan · 26th April 2017, 10:32 AM

I agree with BANDOOK. Since the typical Jodhpur patterns of folded steel are now recognized by most collectors, "remakes" have become more and more sophisticated. They include many types, like pieces that are made to look old, refitting of real old wootz blades with new hilts and koftgari, cleaning and "redecorating" genuine rusty old pieces and almost every imaginable manipulation. They also appear more and more in secondary markets that are not linked to India directly. Such perfect koftgari on a piece that is supposed to be sveral centuries old should always make you suspicious. Even in the best original pieces, some wear should be visible.

francantolin · 26th April 2017, 06:21 PM

Hello,

thank you everybody ! Yes this koftgari is too perfect for be true !

Sometimes so difficult to recognize fake from real,
especially for this kind of mixed items : not a ''basic'' indian/chinese replica
not a museum antique piece !

Suspicious too, the price: asking 300$ instead of 900 ...
What will a good copy cost ? 100-200 $ ( nothing ?!!

)

francantolin · 28th April 2017, 08:28 PM

What about this one with jade hilt ?!!

coming from The Louvre Museum in Paris ...

francantolin · 28th April 2017, 08:49 PM

Or this chilanum hilt,
sold by Christie's in 2014,

said to be from 18th century.

Who can after all really authenticate if fake or true ?

Ian · 28th April 2017, 08:49 PM

Francantolin:

We don't discuss values here (please read again the Forum Rules at the top of the forum page). Anyone wishing to discuss the value of an item should do so via PM or email.

You have a PM from me.

Ian

Quote:

Originally Posted by francantolin

Hello,

thank you everybody ! Yes this koftgari is too perfect for be true !

Sometimes so difficult to recognize fake from real,
especially for this kind of mixed items : not a ''basic'' indian/chinese replica
not a museum antique piece !

Suspicious too, the price: asking 300$ instead of 900 ...
What will a good copy cost ? 100-200 $ ( nothing ?!!

)

francantolin · 28th April 2017, 08:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ian

Francantolin:

We don't discuss values here (please read again the Forum Rules at the top of the forum page). Anyone wishing to discuss the value of an item should do so via PM or email.

Ian

Ok sorry !
I haven't noticed it, it was just for have an idea

thank you !

motan · 28th April 2017, 10:30 PM

Hi francantolin, I am not an expert on these daggers and I didn't mean that they were fake for certain, just that they have some a-typical features that make me doubt their age. There is always a chance that you hit a museum piece for just a fistful of dollars

.
Close up picts of the blade could reveal more..

26th April 2017, 10:32 AM	#2
motan Member Join Date: Apr 2016 Location: Jerusalem Posts: 274	BANDOOK is right I agree with BANDOOK. Since the typical Jodhpur patterns of folded steel are now recognized by most collectors, "remakes" have become more and more sophisticated. They include many types, like pieces that are made to look old, refitting of real old wootz blades with new hilts and koftgari, cleaning and "redecorating" genuine rusty old pieces and almost every imaginable manipulation. They also appear more and more in secondary markets that are not linked to India directly. Such perfect koftgari on a piece that is supposed to be sveral centuries old should always make you suspicious. Even in the best original pieces, some wear should be visible.

28th April 2017, 08:28 PM	#4
francantolin Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Posts: 924	What about this one with jade hilt ?!! coming from The Louvre Museum in Paris ... Attached Images

28th April 2017, 08:49 PM	#5
francantolin Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Posts: 924	Or this chilanum hilt, sold by Christie's in 2014, said to be from 18th century. Who can after all really authenticate if fake or true ? Attached Images

26th April 2017, 08:44 AM	#1
BANDOOK Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: AUCKLAND,NEW ZEALAND Posts: 627	Please do not touch them,they are reproductions from Jodhpur ,Rajasthan I have seen many appearing in auctions being sold as antiques best regards rajesh

26th April 2017, 06:21 PM	#3
francantolin Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Posts: 924	Hello, thank you everybody ! Yes this koftgari is too perfect for be true ! Sometimes so difficult to recognize fake from real, especially for this kind of mixed items : not a ''basic'' indian/chinese replica not a museum antique piece ! Suspicious too, the price: asking 300$ instead of 900 ... What will a good copy cost ? 100-200 $ ( nothing ?!! )

28th April 2017, 10:30 PM	#8
motan Member Join Date: Apr 2016 Location: Jerusalem Posts: 274	Hi francantolin, I am not an expert on these daggers and I didn't mean that they were fake for certain, just that they have some a-typical features that make me doubt their age. There is always a chance that you hit a museum piece for just a fistful of dollars . Close up picts of the blade could reveal more..