Bagobo, Blaan ? Your expertise please

Sajen · 17th April 2017, 10:36 AM

Very well explained Ian!

Battara · 17th April 2017, 07:07 PM

I'm with Ian. The hilt work looks Bagobo to me (though not the best work for them), though Bilaan can't be ruled out.

What throws me ohs the scabbard which looks almost Mandaya in form. Not typical Bagobo in any case.

Marbel · 17th April 2017, 07:10 PM

Thanks for your thoughts and knowledge Ian.

This piece came from an East Coast collector who found it on EBay several years ago. I'm afraid that's as far back as the provenance goes.

I have many Tboli blades and as you know, they are quite distinctive in their design (I'm referring specifically to the hilts and their patterns). My first thought on this was Bagobo but it didn't fit perfectly into that group either. As you noted, the high frequency of trading between these groups and the reuse of hilts, blades and scabbards creates quite a bit of grey area with these pieces at times.

I'm still scratching my head about the pattern and shape at the end of the hilt. It's quite unique and almost matches pieces where that area would have been done in wood. It's a very nice piece, beautifully worn and substantial in weight. Glad to have it.

Would love to have more comments if available. Thanks again.

Marbel · 17th April 2017, 07:15 PM

Yes Battara, thanks. We were typing at the same time.

The scabbard is certainly not a typical Bagobo design at all. Mandaya is a good call. They're neighbors. In general it just looks like a working man's scabbard.

Thanks again. Any thoughts on age?

Ian · 18th April 2017, 12:57 AM

Hi marbel:

I agree with battara. The scabbard is hard to place. Sorry I can't be more helpful on this one.

You are fortunate to have many Tboli blades. They are often well made swords and knives, and the brass/bronze hilts can be real works of art. I understand the best hilts are designed by women who carve the wax molds, and this seems to be a specific craft that has been passed down for many decades.

Ian.

Battara · 18th April 2017, 03:20 AM

Ian that's why I move away from T'boli on this hilt.

Marbel · 18th April 2017, 04:14 PM

Ian,

You are indeed correct on your comment about Tboli women participating in the creation of their swords, especially in the old days. While the men will work on the blades and the basic shape of the hilts (base wax), women would create the more intricate designs in wax for the finished mold. They'd often use small strings of copper wire to form tiny imprints into the main wax.

Thanks again.

Battara · 18th April 2017, 11:19 PM

Marbel, for a metalsmith like me, this information is of great interest and help. I was not aware.

Maraming Salamat!

18th April 2017, 04:14 PM	#7
Marbel Member Join Date: Dec 2013 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 68	Ian, You are indeed correct on your comment about Tboli women participating in the creation of their swords, especially in the old days. While the men will work on the blades and the basic shape of the hilts (base wax), women would create the more intricate designs in wax for the finished mold. They'd often use small strings of copper wire to form tiny imprints into the main wax. Thanks again. Attached Images

17th April 2017, 10:36 AM	#1
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 9,272	Very well explained Ian!

17th April 2017, 07:07 PM	#2
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,310	I'm with Ian. The hilt work looks Bagobo to me (though not the best work for them), though Bilaan can't be ruled out. What throws me ohs the scabbard which looks almost Mandaya in form. Not typical Bagobo in any case.

17th April 2017, 07:10 PM	#3
Marbel Member Join Date: Dec 2013 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 68	Thanks for your thoughts and knowledge Ian. This piece came from an East Coast collector who found it on EBay several years ago. I'm afraid that's as far back as the provenance goes. I have many Tboli blades and as you know, they are quite distinctive in their design (I'm referring specifically to the hilts and their patterns). My first thought on this was Bagobo but it didn't fit perfectly into that group either. As you noted, the high frequency of trading between these groups and the reuse of hilts, blades and scabbards creates quite a bit of grey area with these pieces at times. I'm still scratching my head about the pattern and shape at the end of the hilt. It's quite unique and almost matches pieces where that area would have been done in wood. It's a very nice piece, beautifully worn and substantial in weight. Glad to have it. Would love to have more comments if available. Thanks again.

17th April 2017, 07:15 PM	#4
Marbel Member Join Date: Dec 2013 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 68	Yes Battara, thanks. We were typing at the same time. The scabbard is certainly not a typical Bagobo design at all. Mandaya is a good call. They're neighbors. In general it just looks like a working man's scabbard. Thanks again. Any thoughts on age?

18th April 2017, 12:57 AM	#5
Ian Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Aussie Bush Posts: 4,453	Hi marbel: I agree with battara. The scabbard is hard to place. Sorry I can't be more helpful on this one. You are fortunate to have many Tboli blades. They are often well made swords and knives, and the brass/bronze hilts can be real works of art. I understand the best hilts are designed by women who carve the wax molds, and this seems to be a specific craft that has been passed down for many decades. Ian.

18th April 2017, 03:20 AM	#6
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,310	Ian that's why I move away from T'boli on this hilt.

18th April 2017, 11:19 PM	#8
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,310	Marbel, for a metalsmith like me, this information is of great interest and help. I was not aware. Maraming Salamat!